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1990 Porsche 911 Turbo [964]

1990 Porsche 911 Turbo [964] in Wangan Midnight, Animation Series, 2007-2008 IMDB Ep. 1+

Class: Cars, Coupé — Model origin: DE — Made for: J

1990 Porsche 911 Turbo [964]

[*][*][*][*] Vehicle used a lot by a main character or for a long time

Comments about this vehicle

AuthorMessage

rpcm PT

2008-02-29 16:30

It's not a [964], just a 911 with a body-kit.

badlymad CA

2008-02-29 20:02

The manga and the anime both claim it is a 964 Turbo; maybe these images would help for better ID:
[Image: ruf.jpg] [Image: ruf2.jpg] [Image: ruf4.jpg] [Image: ruf5.jpg] [Image: ruf6.jpg] [Image: ruf7.jpg]

Driven by Tatsuya Shima, and the main opponent of the 240Z

-- Last edit: 2019-09-08 18:08:38 (opal)

rpcm PT

2008-03-01 00:57

The rear end looks [964] indeed, but not the front end.

Eagle Kammback US

2008-12-29 03:44

What year is this Porsche supposed to be?

Emi-hime JP

2009-12-15 17:29

I'm sure I've heard it referred to as both a 964 Turbo and a 911 Turbo in the anime. :S

I don't know Porsches all that well, tbh, so I can't say.

RDS MY

2010-03-17 11:16

It's 965 Turbo ... But The Front Bumper Is From 930 Turbo (In Some Series) ...
If You Watch All Series , You'll Notice Some Of It Run With 965 Front Bumper ...

Oljoke2 DE

2010-04-23 23:11

actually its a 1987 Ruf CTR:

http://www.tschaeckler.de/Bilder/Ruf_CTR_Schwarz-1_30.jpg

Ford78 PT

2010-04-24 02:14

1986 RUF BTR, because the CTR has the 'Yellowbird'.

Oljoke2 DE

2010-04-24 09:13

but the CTR was also available in black (and other colors) ;-)

engine:

[Image: 8z9z2.jpg]

-- Last edit: 2010-04-27 19:40:12

Oljoke2 DE

2010-09-17 22:12

Ep. 1.08, a REAL Yellowbird ^^

[Image: 4ha8m.jpg] [Image: bla6lcs.jpg]

Antti-san FI

2010-10-20 05:42

How is this a CTR? :/ It's clearly meant to be a 964 Turbo, with a few artistic liberties. ;)

[Image: 964.png]

-- Last edit: 2010-10-20 06:00:35

-=Quattro=- PL

2011-06-09 00:01

This isn't the CTR. It's also not a 964...

It's 1986 Ruf Turbo (Porsche 930) with optional CTR bodykit (clean rear bumper without side air vents), in ep. 06 body has been upgraded to 964 Turbo - it's quite easy to do. In ep. 25 after collision several body parts has been changed for parts from 993 - rear fenders etc.

Sorry for my rusty english ;)

-- Last edit: 2011-06-09 00:02:20

-=Quattro=- PL

2011-06-11 15:38

Oh, and CTR has 2 turbos. Blackbird has only one ;)

Tony Truand FR

2011-07-09 14:50

It's definitely a Porsche 930. Not a RUF.

Oljoke2 DE

2011-07-12 21:33

Antti-san wrote How is this a CTR? :/ It's clearly meant to be a 964 Turbo, with a few artistic liberties. ;)

[Image: 964.png]


seems like the car changes between episodes if you look at the fog lights. the car in your picture doesnt have some.
new fog lights and spoiler in Episode 1.14

[Image: b-f_wangan_midnight_14xuyo.jpg] [Image: b-f_wangan_midnight_147uwm.jpg]

btw, we should really change that to RUF Turbo, i see the air intakes in front of the rear fenders are precisely matching, the CTR has no air intakes at the rear fenders.

-- Last edit: 2011-07-12 23:19:01

dsl SX

2015-09-03 12:24

"In the Wangan Midnight series, a character named Tatsuya Shima drives a black Ruf CTR Yellowbird, thus known as the Blackbird." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_CTR

Darkfire25 US

2017-02-26 19:49

This is the car that Blackbird's is based on: a 930 Turbo driven by a doctor in Mid Night club (The racing club that he was a part of)

[Image: 1455129719637068102.jpg]

However, it looks like a 964 in the show. More round rear bumper, it doesn't have the bumper guard like the 930 Turbo. In the games, there is a RUF CTR, so whoever made the game thinks it is one. There were 29 made by Porsche (I'm guessing these were all yellow, maybe not) and they converted more for customer cars. So I would conclude that it's a modified 964 and nothing more.

CTR Yellowbirds had NACA ducts, grills in the rear bumper, and no air intakes in the rear fenders. I think this it's just a 964 turbo, possibly converted to a CTR and that is why it doesn't have the rear air vents or NACA ducts.

Like quattro said, it could be a 930 converted to a 964 body. The parts are pretty interchangeable. And the 930 turbo would be more likely for the time period, that was the popular tuner Porsche in the day. So yeah, probably a 930.

-- Last edit: 2017-02-26 19:50:07

mike962 DE

2019-02-27 13:31

in dialog referenced as 911 and "Porsche"


[Image: untitled.2783.jpg]

-- Last edit: 2019-02-27 13:32:58

senko is poggerss US

2020-09-26 22:19

How stupid do you have to be to think this is an RUF? It´s obviously a Porsche. They say it a million times in the anime, and its even on the wiki.

SimonSays US

2021-08-19 02:11

The subtitles from Episode 11, when Tatsuya brings his car to Body Shop Sunday for modifications, should settle the debate. Takagi describes the car as a 964 3.6 Turbo that was bought from the official dealer. Though the car wears various 930 and/or Ruf style exterior mods at different times (like the front bumpers, side intakes, and aero wing mirrors to name a few), the dialogue here clearly indicates that this is a 964-generation Porsche 911 Turbo. Given that it's a 3.6, it's either a 1993 or 1994 model year example. Regardless, this is most certainly not an '87 Ruf CTR despite some of the styling cues and the the car's nickname. As such, the car's description should be updated accordingly.

[Image: 964turbo1.4.jpg]

[Image: 964turbo2.1.jpg]

Baube QC

2021-08-19 04:00

i know its a cartoon but why they just didn't draw it like the real thing

SimonSays US

2021-08-19 23:28

Baube wrote i know its a cartoon but why they just didn't draw it like the real thing


To be fair, the car is pretty much always drawn with a 964 rear end (lights and bumper), and at times has a 964 front bumper too.

SimonSays US

2021-08-21 06:39

If we needed any more evidence that this isn't a Ruf CTR, here's a quote from Kijima during the finale. This is most definitely a Porsche 964.

[Image: 964wm.1.jpg]

Baube QC

2021-08-21 07:28

then calls it Black Bird right after 964... :/

i don't know how accurate this cartoon is but we saw many, many, many errors in scripts/dialogues in movies and series... :think:

-- Last edit: 2021-08-21 07:29:23

SimonSays US

2021-08-21 16:15

Baube wrote then calls it Black Bird right after 964... :/

i don't know how accurate this cartoon is but we saw many, many, many errors in scripts/dialogues in movies and series... :think:


I don’t understand what the issue is? Yes, there’s a famous Ruf nicknamed the Yellowbird. However, there’s no Ruf that’s ever been officially or unofficially known as a “Blackbird.”

Are you saying no one (in a TV show or in real life) is allowed to refer to/nickname their own Porsche 911 Turbo a “Blackbird?” At some points in the show, they also refer to Tatsuya and his car as the “black sea bird” of the Wangan. The term “sea bird” has no connection to Ruf or the CTR.

Labeling this car as an ’87 Ruf CTR is just plain inaccurate when the show ONLY refers to this car as a Porsche 911/964 Turbo. Moreover, the car ALWAYS has a 964 rear end (rear lights and rear bumper), unlike an '87 CTR. Likewise, at many times, including in some of the photos above, the car is shown with a 964 front bumper too.

The only basis to call this a Ruf CTR is that some commentators here in this thread “feel” like the car sort of looks like a Ruf, even though there’s objectively more 964 in the way it’s drawn. Meanwhile, there are zero Ruf badges, zero references to the Ruf brand... I know the show and the art aren't perfect, but labelling this car as a Ruf is simply illogical. At least call it a Porsche 911 (even though the characters and writers specifically intended it to be a 964 3.6 Turbo).

If you insist on keeping an incorrect label despite the objective facts, I don’t know what to say… If so, I hope we can get a different moderator or admin involved. Please don't disappoint me Baube!

-- Last edit: 2021-08-23 01:42:06

Baube QC

2021-08-21 19:24

well... it was labeled as such at least 5 years before i joined imcdb, so at some point i must not be the only one to think RUF ( or at least an older 911 )

they can name it whatever they want, it's just create some confusion in this particular case
this is (among some other little gems like this one ) what i meant by having trust issues concerning the info given in script /vehicle.php?id=1470123

if you want another admin to have a look on it, no problems, we have some who know way more about those cars than me

to me the front still look like an older model than the 964 , tail lights too ( too much amber on the turn signal, reverse light in wrong position )

i'm just really curious about why they made such efforts to make it look older if they planned to do a 964

However, seems like the only Black Bird i found are either this one here or one in Gran Turismo ( maybe where my confusion starts ) so you surely have a point here
i'd like to wait for the admins who know more about these cars than me before making a change

not sure how i missed that but there is a thumb with the 964 ( well, at least closer to ) tail lights
i just hate when animators take liberties with an existing design... :/

-- Last edit: 2021-08-21 20:19:47

dsl SX

2021-08-21 21:35

A couple of comments:
- whatever they were trying to draw, they've done it with deliberate precision - they knew what it was meant to be (even if we can't quite work it out). If details change for later appearances, it's a quality control problem rather than artistic failure
- I don't see anything [964] in the 2008 pictures - to me it's all 930-based, so as rpcm said in 2008
rpcm wrote It's not a [964], just a 911 with a body-kit.


and this one's worth noting

-=Quattro=- wrote This isn't the CTR. It's also not a 964... It's 1986 Ruf Turbo (Porsche 930) with optional CTR bodykit (clean rear bumper without side air vents), in ep. 06 body has been upgraded to 964 Turbo - it's quite easy to do. In ep. 25 after collision several body parts has been changed for parts from 993 - rear fenders etc.


So I think RUF is safe and probably 86-87-ish, but I'm not confident enough to state which RUF model or combination.

Baube QC

2021-08-21 21:36

thanks dsl :)

Baube QC

2021-08-22 00:40

i know i'll want to kick my own butt for that but Autoart made a version of it and they call it a 930
https://autoartmodels.de/model/78157/

accurate or not, that i don't know

dsl SX

2021-08-22 01:24

^ Autoart are usually very accurate with what they make and what they call it. They made the best 1:43 Lambo Miura model I've ever seen. It cost squillions, but was sensational.

Baube QC

2021-08-22 02:11

yeah, i own a few too , i forgot to mention my concern was more about accuracy with the cartoon and not the car

it cost squillions.. pretty much like the real thing ... :lol:


so... keep RUF or go 930 ?

-- Last edit: 2021-08-22 02:21:21

SimonSays US

2021-08-22 03:03

Baube wrote yeah, i own a few too , i forgot to mention my concern was more about accuracy with the cartoon and not the car

it cost squillions.. pretty much like the real thing ... :lol:


so... keep RUF or go 930 ?


While the AUTOart car looks very nice, there's nothing to indicate that this model car was licensed or endorsed by the creators of the series in any way. I'm not sure why you would prefer to follow the lead of AUTOart, when the show, writers, and characters consistently refer to the car as a 964 Turbo! If the concern is accuracy, then the show's description of the car should take priority over a 3rd party scale car maker with unknown links to the show's creators.

-- Last edit: 2021-08-22 03:22:49

SimonSays US

2021-08-22 03:21

dsl wrote A couple of comments:
- whatever they were trying to draw, they've done it with deliberate precision - they knew what it was meant to be (even if we can't quite work it out). If details change for later appearances, it's a quality control problem rather than artistic failure
- I don't see anything [964] in the 2008 pictures - to me it's all 930-based, so as rpcm said in 2008


and this one's worth noting



So I think RUF is safe and probably 86-87-ish, but I'm not confident enough to state which RUF model or combination.


The rear bumper and rear lights are most definitely from a 964! I agree that at times the front bumper is depicted as 930-based one, but the rear has almost ALWAYS been drawn with the rounder rear lights and heckblende from a 964 as well as the larger and more rounded off rear bumper from a 964 too. Pay attention to the shape of license plate area and how the license plate lights are integrated, and you can clearly see it resembles that of the 964 and NOT that of any 930/G-series 911 (including an '87 CTR).

Additionally, there are no bumperettes as you'd find on a 930. Nor are there slats/vents on the more squared off rear bumper you'd find on an '87 Ruf CTR. Even the original whale tail-style rear wing indicates this is a 964 Turbo. In earlier episodes, it's a "tea tray" wing with an integrated intercooler, which resembles that of the both the 964 3.3 Turbo and 3.6 Turbo, though not the 964 Turbo S wing Baube hyperlinked as "thing" a few posts earlier, which is missing the rubber outer finishings. Likewise, the larger spoiler used in later episodes resembles that of a 964 RSR.

To sum up, the 964 rear end is just about the only thing that remains consistent in every single episode this car appears. So on top of all the references by the show that this is indeed a 964 3.6 Turbo, I think the show stays true to its word.

Finally, I want to state that I strive for accuracy and I'm particularly knowledgable when it comes to Porsches in particular. Just take a look at my post history and you can see I try my best to find the exact model and model year of a particular car, down to the most minute details. And when I can tell it's not possible to nail down an exact year or model, I happily admit the truth. So here, it pains me to see this car labelled as a Ruf CTR (or potentially a 930), when it's so obviously a modified 964 3.6 Turbo.


-- Last edit: 2021-08-23 01:42:37

Baube QC

2021-08-22 03:30

my "thing" was more concerning the tail lights ( where the reverse lights are not between the stop light and the turn signal anymore )

while i agree about the rear bumper its the tail lights and the front end that keeps dragging me away...

-- Last edit: 2021-08-22 03:40:50

SimonSays US

2021-08-22 03:42

Baube wrote my "thing" was more concerning the tail lights ( where the reverse lights are not between the stop light and the turn signal anymore )


Yes, in early episodes, the pattern of the tail lights resembled those from a G series 911, even though the shape of the rear end was otherwise drawn like a 964 Turbo (one of the many inaccuracies/confusing aspects of this car during the show), but by the end, the tail lights and rear end was straight from a 964. Take a look at this still below from episode 26, the finale. These are 964 lights.

[Image: 964finale.jpg]

SimonSays US

2021-08-22 03:49

Baube wrote my "thing" was more concerning the tail lights ( where the reverse lights are not between the stop light and the turn signal anymore )

while i agree about the rear bumper its the tail lights and the front end that keeps dragging me away...


I included this picture earlier, but as you can see, when Takagi states this is a 964 Turbo (according to the subtitle), the car is shown with a 964 front bumper! I know the show goes back and forth with various front ends, but the car is featured in multiple episodes with a 964 front bumper.

[Image: 964turbo14.jpg]

Baube QC

2021-08-22 06:04

looks like there is two of them.. an older one ( even if it has the smooth bumper of a 964 there is still the old exhaust design , in the 964's position but still is the older design , 964 would have either single or dual exhaust depending of the level )
and the 964 .. :think:


would be so simple if they kept it the same way for the whole series instead of changing bits every episode..

slant nose front ( without being slant nose ) ... interesting theory...
Link to "www.barrett-jackson.com"

not so sure about RUF anymore

-- Last edit: 2021-08-22 06:17:47

SimonSays US

2021-08-22 15:14

Baube wrote looks like there is two of them.. an older one ( even if it has the smooth bumper of a 964 there is still the old exhaust design , in the 964's position but still is the older design , 964 would have either single or dual exhaust depending of the level )
and the 964 .. :think:


would be so simple if they kept it the same way for the whole series instead of changing bits every episode..

slant nose front ( without being slant nose ) ... interesting theory...
Link to "www.barrett-jackson.com"

not so sure about RUF anymore


I think the idea that Tatsuya has 2 different cars is kind of a crazy conspiracy theory! A more likely and logical theory is that he has a 964 Turbo that he will “backdate” (think of a company like Singer backdating 964s to make them look like older versions of 911s) and then update and vice-versa depending on what modifications he wants to do. Again, there’s nothing to suggest he (or any other character!) has 2 examples of essentially the same car. Plus the rear bumper (which is a 964 bumper!) is the same every single time the car appears, so there’s at least one consistent element in the design every time we see the "Blackbird".

In general, this car should not be listed as a Ruf. There’s literally nothing to objectively indicate that this is a Ruf. The characters in the show only ever refer to the car as a Porsche. While it’s still pretty clear that this is a 964 Turbo, if you want to take a conservative approach, you can label it just a Porsche 911 (or 911 Turbo to be a little more specific) and leave the model year out. But calling it a Ruf or a 930 Turbo is needlessly inaccurate. I don’t think there’s any need to dive into an “interesting theory” when the actual characters in the show have stated exactly what the car is and there are elements of the design that are consistent with that description.

-- Last edit: 2021-08-22 15:16:32

SimonSays US

2021-08-23 15:41

I'm also going to add that we never see the car with an older style exhaust resembling those from a 930 or a CTR. While it's true the 964 (Turbo or other variant) never had a twin outlet exhaust tips as we see in some of the earlier depictions of the car, the tips drawn here are not like those found on a 930 or Ruf CTR. 930 Turbos did have twin exhaust tips on the left side of the bumper, but those tips were canted outwards at a severe angle. The same is true of the angle of the Ruf CTR's dual single tip exhaust. Those were also angled outwards.

Here, we see the exhaust tips exit straight outwards relative to the bumper (rather than at an angle) regardless of the muffler setup used. This is akin to the exhaust setup expected on a 964.

SimonSays US

2021-08-26 23:35

Any updates? It's pretty obvious this isn't an '87 Ruf CTR... Even if you don't agree that this is a 964 Turbo (despite the characters, writers, and wiki saying so), at least someone could update this to just say it's a Porsche 911 and leave out the model year. That's a conservative, yet still accurate, solution.

I hope an admin or mod with the ability to update the label, like Baube or dsl, will do something. Or at least rationally/logically explain why nothing is being done because the current label does not make sense. Isn't the point of the website to be accurate?

dsl SX

2021-08-27 02:11

I'm out of juice on this one - still not convinced it's 964, along with several other contributors, and it's fluid over the episodes, so not a fixed target. Noted that we have several cases where captions or artists claim they show a particular model/type, but then have drawn something different, so that's not watertight as a rule.

But I've made all the comments I can offer, so changing to 964 Turbo.

SimonSays US

2021-08-27 03:32

dsl wrote I'm out of juice on this one - still not convinced it's 964, along with several other contributors, and it's fluid over the episodes, so not a fixed target. Noted that we have several cases where captions or artists claim they show a particular model/type, but then have drawn something different, so that's not watertight as a rule.

But I've made all the comments I can offer, so changing to 964 Turbo.


I appreciate the update! Your point is fair, though I still think the weight of captions/character's words should play a substantial role in an animated series (relative to a real life production). Plus, I think there are enough 964 elements every time the car appears to convince me it is indeed a 964 Turbo. Regardless, calling it a Ruf CTR did not make much sense, so good on you for making the change.

:beer:

-- Last edit: 2021-08-27 03:35:56

Baube QC

2021-08-27 07:14

While i can't deny/ignore the main pic is way closer to this than a 964 ( with 964's rear bumper, i'll give you that ) i won't go against since i was considering changing to Porsche 911 Turbo , minus the 964 due to inconstancy in the drawings , its about like i was making a cartoon, stating that the character drives a 1992 Mustang but slapping quad headlights on it half of the time along with various Fox-body Mustang bits depending of the episodes ( people would come at me and go : " Hey buddy, how many '92 Mustangs have you seen recently ? " .. ;) )

I'm glad we can leave that 911 in the rearview mirror .. :D

Another thing that made me doubt is that we saw too many times in script/dialogues they said this , they said that .. sometimes they know their stuff and everything is accurate... some other times, well, we are still amazed that they get in the good car when they're leaving for work... :whistle:


-- Last edit: 2021-08-27 07:53:28

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