Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-25 22:19
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-25 22:27	Another one on the right I guess
RedBoy9199 ◊ 2018-05-25 23:10	Origin: GB.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-25 23:15	Please change to Unknown/Plaxton etc. The firm Plaxton manufactured coachwork, not chassis, so any suitable chassis could be underneath.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-25 23:18	Admins: - this isn’t the only one.
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-25 23:18	johnfromstaffs wrote Please change to Unknown/Plaxton etc. The firm Plaxton manufactured coachwork, not chassis, so any suitable chassis could be underneath. Agreed indeed, but in that case you (we) should fix all the ones here.. /vehicles.php?make=Plaxton&model=Panorama&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-25 23:19
Jale ◊ 2018-05-25 23:41	But if we don't know the maker of the chassis (and without badge or valid plate it's difficult, or even impossible to choose), it will by "unknown" forever...
dsl ◊ 2018-05-25 23:55	johnfromstaffs wrote Admins: - this isn’t the only one. sixcyl wrote Agreed indeed, but in that case you (we) should fix all the ones here.. /vehicles.php?make=Plaxton&model=Panorama&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on Good calls. Done - a nest of pestilence has been eradicated..
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-25 23:56	Jale wrote But if we don't know the maker of the chassis (and without badge or valid plate it's difficult, or even impossible to choose), it will by "unknown" forever... And so it should be, guessing a make would be too silly for words.
dsl ◊ 2018-05-25 23:58	Jale wrote .. it will be "unknown" forever... Probably. But hiding them with Plaxton as make is a worse solution as no-one would realise they exist.
Jale ◊ 2018-05-26 00:00	Then - if they're impossible to identifying - maybe better move all of them to the comments...?
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-26 10:53	johnfromstaffs wrote And so it should be, guessing a make would be too silly for words. Good challenge,and I found it I guess: Seddon Pennine IV Panorama Elite II
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-26 11:03	I do not think that you have identified the bus with any certainty. How do you know that the main picture is the same bus? I have found examples of the Plaxton Panorama Elite 2 coachwork on AEC, Leyland, Bedford, Ford and Bristol chassis from just a quick look at Google. The paint scheme on your Seddon picture doesn’t match the subject, look at the different position of the light/dark paint joins, neither does the number of roof ventilators shown on the thumbs match the Seddon, which was an unreliable and unsuccessful chassis and therefore not much used. "If it's a Seddon it's a dead'un." Around 6,000 Elites of all variants were built according to Wiki, which also adds Daimler and Volvo chassis as possibilities, the chances of this being two images of the same vehicle are not great. These are not mass produced identical things like some supermini. Still to remain as an unknown chassis in my opinion, unless a registration plate, a fleet name and number or a chassis maker's badge is visible. Since the coachwork can appear fitted to so many differing chassis, without this, or a similarly unarguable form of back up information such as BLOTW bus identification is a minefield. https://www.showbus.com/manu/pn.htm https://classicconnections.org.uk/fleet-list/leyland-leopard-plaxton-elite/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/3418590877 -- Last edit: 2018-05-26 14:00:23
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-27 12:25	Dear John, I'm sorry but I think having some arguments on this one and I'm quite desappointed that you didn't converge with me on some evidence. johnfromstaffs wrote The paint scheme on your Seddon picture doesn’t match the subject, look at the different position of the light/dark paint joins On the contrary, up to me, delimitation of colours in the paint scheme match exactly, but as you know colours dépends on the customers choices in a range of different paint schèmes proposed by Plaxton, and not to mention specific bus companies colours.. johnfromstaffs wrote neither does the number of roof ventilators shown on the thumbs match the Seddon, which was an unreliable and unsuccessful chassis and therefore not much used. The Seddon Panorama has 4 ventilation hatches not visible in this picture because closed, and 2 lateral ventilation fixed on the roof , the left side ventilator is visible. Some other Seddon , confirmed by GOV.UK https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ViewVehicle Some have the Seddon-Diesel logo on the lower front grill, some haven't johnfromstaffs wrote Around 6,000 Elites of all variants were built according to Wiki, which also adds Daimler and Volvo chassis as possibilities, the chances of this being two images of the same vehicle are not great. These are not mass produced identical things like some supermini. I know that. We can clearly distinguish front ornaments différences, and share of paint scheme, among the different chassis used (Ford, Leyland, AEC, Bedford, Seddon, Volvo..etc..) Some exemple: Ford R1014 Bedford YRQ AEC Reliance Leyland Leopard Bristol RE Seddon is the only one matching with the main picture.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-27 13:40	I’m sorry I cannot agree. Unless a badge can be seen, or we know the registration plate or fleet and fleet number there is no evidence that definitely confirms this as a Seddon or as anything else, and it should remain as unknown. The light and dark colours do NOT match, I have viewed the two images side by side on my laptop and compared them. The door colour scheme is different in the two images in question, the cream colour on the subject picture follows a straight dividing line level with the top of the grille, the black and white picture shows the darker colour following the curved detail under and just outside the windscreen, making the whole of the panel between the windscreen and the grille one colour (cream) on the subject picture, and two colours, (light and dark) on the monochrome picture. Therefore you cannot say for certain that this is the same bus. Without the sort of evidence mentioned in my first sentence, and with the fuzzy subject image with no positive identification any other conclusion than “unknown” is just speculation. The colours and design of the decorative stripes and trim strips are not applicable to the chassis maker, they will have been specified by the purchaser to match his house style. What would happen if an operator ran two different chassis under the same type of coachwork painted in the same colours? Would you then decide that they were the same make? Without evidence there is no certainty and there is certainly no evidence. Seddon is without doubt not proven in any satisfactory manner, but, I as a mere mortal can do nothing to change it. -- Last edit: 2018-05-27 16:28:54
tore-40 ◊ 2018-05-27 13:52	A Dear John letter...
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-27 16:42	https://hiveminer.com/Tags/plaxton%2Csmiths/Recent To compare with the Seddon picture. It's a Ford.
sixcyl ◊ 2018-05-27 19:02	johnfromstaffs wrote https://hiveminer.com/Tags/plaxton%2Csmiths/Recent To compare with the Seddon picture. It's a Ford. All Panoramas shown here are not Sedddon indeed, they don't match for these détails: N°4 FJP501 AEC Reliance on short chassis ==> No doubled air-intakes between head lights, only flat plate N°16 & N°20 HEK962 AEC Reliance on short chassis ==> No doubled air-intakes between head lights, only flat plate N°17 AAW41K Leyland ==> No doubled air-intakes between head lights, logo on flat plate N°30 HEK956 AEC Reliance ==> No doubled air-intakes between head lights, only flat plate and logo on it N°41 JKN971L Ford ==> Typical on Ford , a 3rd air-intake is over the silver jonction ornament above the doubled air-intakes and head lights N°50 NEK23K Ford ==> 3rd air-intake over the silver jonction ornament above the a specific coffer and head lights So there's nothing invalidating my affirmation. -- Last edit: 2018-05-27 19:04:47
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2018-05-27 21:13	There is nothing positive to indicate what it is. I repeat, without a registration plate, a fleet number or a maker’s logo it could be any make of chassis. It would appear, however, that you are not going to accept my point, so I intend to make no further comment upon the matter. -- Last edit: 2018-05-27 21:31:03
Exiv96 ◊ 2018-05-27 22:34	Right, I've got my copy of the 1981 Buses Annual, where a certain Ray Stenning discusses the evolution of the Plaxton Panorama styling. And it's a good read. sixcyl, you're right when you say the Ford chassis had an extra air slot above the grille, and the Bristol RE two. However, the presence and number of air slots between the headlights can't be used to say it's a Seddon chassis. According to the book, two air slots = Panorama Elite II, while no air slots = Panorama Elite III. Nothing to do with the chassis.
Exiv96 ◊ 2018-05-27 22:36	This means our mystery chassis could be anything except a Ford or a Bristol. But the body is correct.
ewood.eddie ◊ 2018-06-06 01:46	The second vehicle is a Supreme IV
andrepa ◊ 2018-06-19 03:24	there are (early) Elite III with same grille with 2 slots even with Elite II trimline what makes this an Elite II is: -destination sign rubber framed while III had squared-off chrome -non hand clap pantograph whipers https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7229/7008729085_8072b5c11d_b.jpg as Exiv96 says we can exclude only Ford and Bristol by number of slots

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unknown Plaxton Panorama Elite II

unknown in La petite bande, Movie, 1983

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