Kommentare über dieses Fahrzeug

Autor	Mitteilung
Lateef ◊ 2011-06-20 12:51	1976+ Lancia Beta Berlina?
DynaMike ◊ 2011-06-20 13:06	The berlina version of the Beta was called Trevi (or was it indeed Beta Berlina in Norway?) But I'd think this is a Lada...
Neon ◊ 2011-06-20 13:07	Agree, that's not a Beta Berlina neither a Trevi
Lateef ◊ 2011-06-20 13:12	It seemed like a good idea at the time..
electra225 ◊ 2011-06-20 13:20	Lada 1500 !!!!!
Lateef ◊ 2011-06-20 13:21	Calm down ...
dsl ◊ 2011-06-20 13:37	Seems to match details for UK-spec 1600 [2106] (Sept 78 onwards) - wrap round bumper ends, side indicators.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 15:53	Looks like 2106 with Canadian bumper.
Lateef ◊ 2011-06-20 15:59	This is Norway, though.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 16:05	For Norway they use bumper-mounted turn signals too?
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 16:26	Yes, British one. 1600 (21064).
ingo ◊ 2011-06-20 16:27	It's a Canadian bumper anyways, too big for the european version. What's up with the, in Norway required, side indicator? Did Lada take the American sidemarker-case and have put the bulb in it, or were they unique parts? The part above looks rather sidemarker-ish by its big size.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 16:33	Canadian vs. British http://www.autowp.ru/pictures/vaz/2106/autowp.ru_lada_1500s_4.jpg Link to "www.autowp.ru"
3loader ◊ 2011-06-20 16:45	So this /vehicle_386547-VAZ-2106-Zhiguli-1981.html is Lada too? Not just VAZ?
ingo ◊ 2011-06-20 16:49	What was the reason for the different names, only the export countries? If yes, IMHO a VAZ will not became a Lada, just by mounting export-market-parts.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 16:51	3loader wrote So this /vehicle_386547-VAZ-2106-Zhiguli-1981.html is Lada too? Not just VAZ? This one had Canadian turn signals under headlights and normal in bumper. )
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-20 16:52	ingo wrote What was the reason for the different names, only the export countries? Export countries wasn't happy with "Zhiguli" name.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-20 18:12	In West Germany it was always Lada, in the DDR Shiguli at first, later Lada, too. 1975, IIRC, what 130rapid has said once. Before I've learned the details (at IMCDb, where else? ) I've thought, that the version for DDR-authorities like the police, was named Shiguli, and the cars for the private use Lada. I remember, when it was said "Shiguli" in DDR-movies or TV-programmes, always by officials.
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-20 18:33	It is 1600 - 21061 or 21065, exported also to Norway.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-20 18:36	Sure, a 1600 - but it's "made for N" or "made for CDN" now? I'd go for "made for CDN", as it's obviously this specific version.
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-20 18:41	It is specific version for N and CDN and maybe some other set of letters.
dsl ◊ 2011-06-20 22:33	This is the only 1600 we have in [21061] /vehicles_make-Lada_model-21061.html - is that correct?
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 12:49	Yes of course - too fast. 21061 was 1500, 1600 was the 21065. The discussion about the change of Zhiguli to Lada was here: /vehicle_279944-VAZ-2103-Zhiguli-1973.html /vehicle.php?id=250529 It was indeed in ca 1975. The year "ca. 1975" was pointed out, for the first time perhaps (in COMECON context) by sergej though: /vehicle_183042-VAZ-2102-Zhiguli-Universal-1972.html And indeed - it is this way in 1975 Mototechna price list. Unfortunately I do not have direct data from Poland, from 1974, only quotation of the 1974 list and there, the car is described as "Lada (VAZ 2102)". God knows what author meant and is it exactly prescribed from the our Polmozbyt documents. Worth to say however that in period "Młody Technik" magazine those 1974 wagons were described as "VAZ 2102". Perhaps change of brand/badges lasted for some time, even in UK early ones were badged as VAZ Zhiguli (like it was mentioned by Chris40). Possible that car was already called Lada, but still badged as Zhiguli for some time also in COMECON. Anyway, as we have info about "ca 1975", as I wrote once, it is better IMO to list already all 1974 2103 and 2101 (there were some notable external changes this year) as "Lada", if exact badge is not visible - to connect the visual modifications and name change together. -- Last edit: 2011-06-21 18:25:44
dsl ◊ 2011-06-21 13:13	Weasel1984 wrote It is 1600 - 21061 or 21065, exported also to Norway. So 1600 [21065]? (which would be our first definite 21065). I promise not to interfere with Ladas again .....
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 13:23	They were identical nearly (about this in a moment), so as default we usually list smaller engine, lower trim etc. At least one difference betwen them is to note however. 21065 on most of pics has double rubber strips in bumper, but some had single one too - same like 21061. So those were perhaps m.y. changes in both of them or they had different details for different export markets. Here we see single rubber strip anyway. -- Last edit: 2011-06-21 13:46:44
ingo ◊ 2011-06-21 20:42	Weasel1984 wrote It is specific version for N and CDN and maybe some other set of letters. Why N and CDN? It has obviously the Canadian front, plus the side markers (in N surely used as indicators). Or was the CDN-version officially sold in N? Like, for example, the few Passat Variant [Typ32] in US-trim, named Audi Fox Wagon(?), which were sold in GB? -- Last edit: 2011-06-21 20:42:08
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 20:43	Weasel1984 wrote exported also to Norway.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-21 21:19	Yes, I know - in CDN-version? This is my question.
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 21:29	Not only CDN version especially when we see it in N, this is the point. The car was not designed for CDN market only, but to meet the CDN regulations also. Finally AFAIK it was exported mostly to CDN, but was made also for other markets. In other words bumper, despite was prepared for North America, do not makes it automatically a CDN version. Such "sidelights"/indicators had ordinary 2106 (and 2103) as well. I guess you mean - you want to place the "made for CDN" tag here - then no, it do not deserves it. -- Last edit: 2011-06-21 21:37:43
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-21 21:40	Bumper don't, but front turn signals does. Only CDN version had two-tone amber lights instead of amber-white.
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 21:43	Yes, but here we have amber/white.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-21 21:45	I mean that CDN version is CDN version.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-21 21:45	In what countries Lada had used the CDN-bumper, too, officially?
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-21 21:46	GB - for sure.
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-21 21:56	Finland.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-21 22:11	No idea why, but right now a dialogue with my Swedish friends came in my mind, when they had cleaned carefully their car, they'd just two hours before bought, in the backyard of my former home "Polish?" "No" "Finish?" "No" "??" "Swedish!"
blinski ◊ 2011-06-23 13:18	Weasel, you mentioned Lada 2102 and Polmozbyt documents. Was it ever available officialy in Poland? I once saw some Polmo price list and it wasn't there. I also never saw one neither in Polish film nor with my bare eyes (I mean with Polish registration plates, I saw with Lithuanian and Ukrainian). Wasn't 1500 the first Lada making its way to Polish market? -- Last edit: 2011-06-23 13:20:46
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-23 18:39	The 1500/2103 was first Lada imported to Poland in more notable numbers (since ca 1975), but also the 2101 and 2102 were known here (21011/13 might be too, but not sure about it). Of course they were never as common here as in neighbourhood countries. Those were small numbers, like for the car of this class made in "brotherhood" country. 700 pieces of 2102 was delivered in fall 1974. Z. Podbielski in period article desribes them as VAZ 2102 Zhiguli Universal. Then they could be imported also in 1975, what was later I do not know. Possible, that nothing. As far as I remember now, we have at least three 2102 from Poland at the site: 1. Badged as Zhiguli to me: /vehicle_78881-VAZ-2102-Zhiguli-Universal-1974.html 2. Brand new for sale - 1975 (3rd one is visible in thumb): /vehicle.php?id=394257 -- Last edit: 2011-06-23 20:04:00
blinski ◊ 2011-06-23 21:42	This is amazing what you can find in your materials Yes, now I remember that 2102 in 'Czterdziestolatek', cause it made me wonder then. I think it was never so common here because of the 125p, which was bigger and assembled in Poland. But what with Lada 1500? Was it better equipped or cheaper than Fiat 125p?
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-23 23:11	The 1500 was a bit more expensive AFAIK, but had good reputation. I do not know the price of VAZ 2101 unfortunately. It is possible, that 125p was indeed only a bit more expensive than 2101, but offered more (it for sure had better performance, being in 1500 version, for a years, the fastest COMECON made car available for ordinary citizens). Only really strange price, can explain rarity of 2101 here, I think - as place on market would be enough for both - 125p and 2101. But it is also possbile, that behind this was hidden something hard to understand, like some political decision to limit this VAZ import. Our decision or... Again Podbielski (but not only him), this time in recent book "PF/FSO 125p", claims that with export of some models Soviet Union simply ommited our country (for example export of Moskvitch nearly died in the 1970's, also 2101 has been mentioned) and none know why it was like that. -- Last edit: 2011-06-23 23:34:50
blinski ◊ 2011-06-23 23:22	Even if it wasn't that simple, I think the subject of our countries doing not so well in common business would be too sensitive to extend. But it's a really interesting thing in my opinion.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-26 00:00	Oh, there was a very important feature, which was in the mind of really every henchman of the COMECON-leaderships: Western money All, absolutely all premium products from the COMECON-countries were sold to the West. For getting Western money from the class enemy, they all let their socialistic brothers and friends left in the lurch. Though the stuff, which the local population never could get in their countries, was flogged in the West (Skoda and Lada had been the cheapest cars on the West German market in the 80ies - in the DDR they were the top premium models, they -officially- had), the export to the West was the most important. Not the peoples-movements in the 80ies have caused the collapse in 1989/90, it was the economy. One of the first coffin nails of the COMECON was initiated by Breshnev himself around 1981, when he decided, that the brothers/satellites had to pay the Soviet exported oil and gas with Western currency, not any more with some industrial products.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-26 00:07	Brezhnev himself was nail in the coffin...
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-06-26 00:44	ingo wrote All, absolutely all premium products from the COMECON-countries were sold to the West. This we know - but here, we have different situation, as surprisingly more expensive models of Lada were imported to Poland and the cheaper ones weren't or were rarely (Moskvitches 2138/40 were perhaps delivered in some small numbers only two times - around 1976 and then around 1980). On the other hand it would be interesting to know, what percentage of the all Polish Ladas 1500 has been sold via Pewex and Pol-Mot (for "green ones" $). Maybe quite notable one and this way it could be profitable for SU. ingo wrote he decided, that the brothers/satellites had to pay the Soviet exported oil and gas with Western currency, not any more with some industrial products. In 1970's Soviet Union paid for everything in “changeable” Ruble though (I mean the COMECON currency) and this was also a nightmare, as I read once. For example SU ordered here ships with the newest western technic, for those technologies we had to pay at the west in US dollars of course, but for complete ships SU paid us in COMECON Rubles. Even if it worked somehow at the paper, in reality had to lead to disaster, as due to such businesses, we lost deficit dollars at each step.
ingo ◊ 2011-06-26 00:59	I'm still waiting for the answer of the "cars-in-the-DDR"-specialist from my plate-collector-forum, if there were some special "made for DDR"-features at the regulary sold ("apportioned" would be more correct) Ladas and Skodas there. There were definetely differences at the Trabant and Wartburg, Barkas maybe, too, which were sold via the GENEX (so sold for D-Mark, paid by West German relatives).
ingo ◊ 2011-07-08 23:16	Now I got a few more informations about COMECON-cars in the DDR. There were no specal "made for DDR"-versions, the main difference to other countries was, that not all versions were imported (in fact mainly the basic poverty spec trim lines were delivered to there). So in the DDR were NOT available: Skoda 105 GL, 120 GLS, the Lada Samara only as 3door with the 1300 ccm-engine, and never the Estate-versions of the Dacia 1300 and the Polski Fiat 125p. And sure, the special versions for Western countries, also extras like alloys or metallic paint (btw.: was there ever any COMECON-car available in metallic paint? ) were unthinkable there. Some models, like the Lada Niva, were not to get officially for normal citizens (though in the West is was flogged as the cheapest 4x4 car).
Weasel1984 ◊ 2011-07-08 23:32	ingo wrote btw.: was there ever any COMECON-car available in metallic paint? /vehicle_412803-FSO-Polonez-B01-1983.html (it is silver) Sometimes 125p were to get in metallics too (more interesting than silver) in the 1970's. Both Polonez and 125p's were sold in such colors for dollars (etc.) only/mostly. Perhaps there were also other COMECON "metallic cars", especially in the 1980's. I think there were silver Tatras 613-3 (not only in brochures) and Dacias 1310 for Export to Canada IIRC. -- Last edit: 2011-07-08 23:34:18
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-04-04 13:09	deleted comment
Weasel1984 ◊ 2012-04-04 14:21	And silver Oltcits and, maybe not many, but few more cars for sure.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-04-04 14:26	deleted comment
ingo ◊ 2012-04-04 19:16	@Andre: sure, there were some metallic painted COMECON made cars - but none of them were exported to the DDR. The Zonis (a nasty name for DDR-citizens) only got the poverty-spec basic versions from their socialist brothers. But they didn't act different. For many products they had three different quality-classes. A, the best, for the export to the West, B for the export to COMECON-countries, C for the own market (B and C sometimes changed) and D - for the export to the Soviet Union. -- Last edit: 2012-04-04 19:16:51
ingo ◊ 2013-01-09 20:25	A fellow in my plate-forum has digged out something interesting: "Über die Genex GmbH verkaufte Pkw in den Jahren 1981-1988, in Stück: VW Golf: 13.332 (1981-1988), VW Passat: 235 (1985-1988), VW Transporter: 47 (1985-1988), Mazda: 1.340 (1981-1985), Ford: 642 (1986-1988), Peugeot: 33 (1988), BMW: 36 (1988), Renault: 154 (1985-1988), Fiat: 353 (1981-1988), Lada: 11.486 (1981-1988), Skoda: 2.675 (1981-1988), Wartburg: 42.313 (1981-1988), Trabant: 39.260 (1981-1988), Barkas: 910 (1981-1988) Quelle: Drucksache 12/7600 des Deutschen Bundestags (27. Mai 1994)"
Moscvich433 ◊ 2016-03-24 19:29	'Made for N' because of bumpers.
Moscvich433 ◊ 2019-01-28 15:41	[21061-41] is a code for canadian-type bumpers on european version.

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