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1977 Trabant 601 A 'Kübel' [P601]

1977 Trabant 601 A [P601] in 20 Cars That Changed the World, Documentary, 2002 IMDB Ep. 20

Class: Cars, Off-road / SUV — Model origin: DR

1977 Trabant 601 A 'Kübel' [P601]

[*][*] Minor action vehicle or used in only a short scene

Comments about this vehicle

AuthorMessage

stronghold EN

2006-05-09 12:22

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Tiff calls this a 'Jeep' version.!

+++++++++

hi stronghold!

I have put it on an own page:
/vehicle.php?id=32587

because ist was built much later (1978 - 90) than the kübelwagen (1966 - 90) and it is also listed in another movie:

/vehicle_28271-Trabant-Tramp-1979.html

hope, you agree.

:-))
martin

-- Last edit: 2006-05-10 21:11:14 (der.krusche)

der.krusche AT

2006-05-09 12:26

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fist of all: the trabant's marque is "AWZ" = "Automobilwerk Zwickau".

should be listed maybe ALSO under this acronym.

this is a P601 A Kübelwagen (1966 - 1990), I suppose.

:-))
martin

-- Last edit: 2006-05-09 12:26:27

antp BE

2006-05-09 14:11

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der.krusche wrote fist of all: the trabant's marque is "AWZ" = "Automobilwerk Zwickau".


Alexander was saying it was "Sachsenring" :??: (which seems already more probable than AWZ, except if you were meaning the make of this particular model, not all Trabant)

-- Last edit: 2006-05-09 14:11:51

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 14:29

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The Trabant is a model of the 'VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau'.
The 'Automobilwerke Zwickau' (AWZ) spawned from the 'Audi' factory in Zwickau. From 1955 to 1959 they produced the AWZ P 70, a forerunner of the Trabant.
In 1958 AWZ was merged with the 'VEB Sachsenring Kraftfahrzeug- und Motorenwerk' ('Horch' in pre-GDR times) to form the 'VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau', short 'Sachsenring'.
Their main product was the Trabant. On every Trabant you can find the Sachsenring logo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/6/62/Trabant_logo.png

Therefore I would like to stress (again) that 'Sachsenring' is the make, 'Trabant' the model name.

antp BE

2006-05-09 14:39

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For me it would be OK for Sachsenring, but I still do not know for Wartburg which seems even more obscure :D

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 15:33

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antp wrote ... Wartburg ... seems even more obscure :D

I agree.
I will look into the matter and will try to find a verisimilar answer.

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 15:44

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stronghold wrote Tiff calls this a 'Jeep' version.!

Who said Tiff is someone in the know? [Image: emotlol_2.gif]

How shall people get it right if even TV presenters talk ox-droppings! [Image: genervt.gif]

antp BE

2006-05-09 16:14

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Alexander wrote
I agree.
I will look into the matter and will try to find a verisimilar answer.

On Wikipedia they mention Wartburg as a marque, and I remember that in Belgium the car was advertised as a "Wartburg", not IFA (though the logo was usually displayed somewhere). But I know that Wikipedia is not always correct, and not really a proof.

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 18:12

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antp wrote
On Wikipedia they mention Wartburg as a marque, and I remember that in Belgium the car was advertised as a "Wartburg", not IFA (though the logo was usually displayed somewhere). But I know that Wikipedia is not always correct, and not really a proof.


Here is an image if the car's name plate:
http://www.wartburg-sport.de/Allgemeines06.jpg
It is for the coupé type 313.1, also known as 'Wartburg-Sport'.
The manufacturer is named 'VEB Automobiwerk Eisenach' and the type '313.1'. 'Wartburg' is not mentioned at all!

Another example shows the 'Wartburg-Camping', the estate version.
http://www.wartburg-camping.de/geschichte/kaufvertrag.html
The invoice names 'VEB Automobiwerk Eisenach' as the maker, too.

GDR names can be a bit confusing:

'VEB' means 'Volkseigener Betrieb' = nationally owned enterprise
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEB
Every GDR enterprise was a VEB.

'IFA' means 'Industrieverband Fahrzeugbau' = industrial alliance of vehicle manufacturers
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrievereinigung_Fahrzeugbau
Head organisation of all vehicle manufacturers. The IFA label was used extensively for export to create a national brand name.

'AWE' means 'Automobilwerk Eisenach' = car factory in Eisenach
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEB_Automobilwerk_Eisenach
They produced the Wartburg cars.

'Wartburg' : name by which the cars were known
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartburg_%28Pkw%29

'311' (e.g.) : model number for official papers, not so important otherwise


Those people that restore these cars to former glory mostly use 'AWE' as maker and 'Wartburg 311' as model name. I think that is the best solution.

Same applies for the 'Sachsenring Trabant 601'.

There are cars that used 'IFA' as the makers name, e.g. model F8 or W50.






antp BE

2006-05-09 18:15

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Some Wartburg were sold as IFA: /vehicle_17544-IFA-Wartburg-311.html
Well, I guess we can use AWE for the other ones, and IFA in countries where it was used.

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 18:26

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antp wrote Some Wartburg were sold as IFA: /vehicle_17544-IFA-Wartburg-311.html
Well, I guess we can use AWE for the other ones, and IFA in countries where it was used.


Actually I would not use 'IFA', as it is more like 'DaimlerChrysler' or 'British Leyland'. Advertisements abroad used 'IFA' for all vehicles from the GDR.

antp BE

2006-05-09 20:55

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But AWE was not used in any commercial document :??: Unlike Trabant's "Sachsenring" name, or at least logo.

Alexander DE

2006-05-09 23:25

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antp wrote But AWE was not used in any commercial document ...

Well, 'commercial' and 'GDR' dosn't really blend very well... :D

It was used in documents, even in the long form:
http://www.wartburg-sport.de/Allgemeines06.jpg
http://www.wartburg-camping.de/geschichte/bilder/Kaufvertrag.jpg
http://www.wartburg-camping.de/geschichte/zeitzeugnisse/typenschild.jpg

And here is the logo:
http://www.wartburg-camping.de/Logo2-Fr%FChling.jpg
http://www.project-wartburg.de/logo.jpg
http://web.quick.cz/forteg/warre3a.gif
which was used on the cars:
http://www.ht-300.de/prospekte/buch/m.jpg
http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/10935006.jpg
http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1959%20Wartburg%20311.jpg

For me that is convincing enough.

der.krusche AT

2006-05-10 09:46

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huh! what a discussion on the question of marque / make.

well, eberhard kittler writes in "DDR-Personenwagen 1945 - 1990" (typenkompass / motorbuch verlag): "Die 1990 verflossene DDR hatte nur zwei große PKW-Hersteller aufzuweisen: das Automobilwerk Zwickau (AWZ) und das Automobilwerk Eisenach (AWE)."

but he has listed some models as "Sachsenring". P240 limousines and P3 LKW Kübelwagen. named "AWZ Sachsenring".

at least, of course: I never heared anybody say "AWZ" instead of trabant or trabi ...

:-))
martin

mitto UK

2010-03-18 13:30

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I thought IFA was the state owned "company", that ran Eisenach and Zwikau etc as part of an autonomous collective industry? The Trabant being an 'IFA Sachsenring Trabant 601' built by 'VEB Sachsenring'. The Wartburg is an 'IFA Wartburg Knight', built by 'VEB Eisenach'... Etc. Wartburg and Trabant are the "make" and 601, p50 p70 etc are the "type" of Trabant, as much as /Knight 353 (and/or tourist), 311, 312 etc are the "type" of Wartburg.

Due to the nature of soviet state owned industry, it;ps difficult to really know who was running the show. The parts were made all over the place and shipped in for assembly, many IFA vehicles share common parts.

Do not be fooled by the myth that the vehciles (especially the Trabant) were 'all the same', and the design unchanged throughout production... That is a long LONG way from the truth. there are as may variants, if not more, that most western vehicles.


I drive my Trabant 601s every day. I'm saving money to buy a Kubel !

ingo DE

2010-03-18 15:29

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In an actual classic car-magazine I've read, that until 1955 it was still "Audi" added on the FIN-plates of the F8 and F9.

@mitto: until 1972, the year, when the last mid-size private companies in the DDR were dispossessed by the state, there had a very few private owned coachbuilders survived. Mainly the had made buses or special truck-conversions.

Indeed, the history of the brand- and model-names of the DDR-cars is really confusing. Many details aren't logical either.

And there were some juristic fights between DDR-owned companies with the same name as the former dependances in West Germany about names and copyrights. So IFA wasn't allowed any more to use the BMW-logo and -name and the four rings of the Auto Union neither.
One of the longest juristic cases was running between Zeiss IKON in Oberkochem near Franfurt/Main and the VEB Carl Zeiss in Jena.


Btw: the West German DKW/Auto Union/Audi-company was founded by refugees from Saxonia. Some of them went back in the late 40ies illegally and have picked up many construction-plans, blueprints and tools and have smuggled them to the West. And they could convince several former workers and engineers to come with them.

-- Last edit: 2010-03-18 15:30:26

Weasel1984 PL

2011-04-10 20:26

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601 A

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