Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
electra225 ◊ 2012-07-02 00:06	Rover P4 ?
ingo ◊ 2012-07-02 00:14	On the right, above the Buckeltaunus, a Standard Vanguard?
andrepa ◊ 2012-07-02 00:27	Rover on hook by windscreen and cutaway of grill
dsl ◊ 2012-07-02 01:19	Agree P4, and ingo's comment about a Standard Vanguard in the pile.
Wicio ◊ 2012-07-02 02:13	Yes,Rover P4.
dsl ◊ 2012-07-02 02:59	Low rear wing line so 1950-54 = 1950-1954 '75', a 1954 '60' or 1954 '90' - /vehicle_140633-Rover-P4-1950.html .
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 18:37	Hey, but this car wasn't very old in 1963!
andrepa ◊ 2012-07-02 19:03
ingo ◊ 2012-07-02 21:11	Nightrider wrote Hey, but this car wasn't very old in 1963! It was in the "bad 13th year", the average age, when most cars were scrapped. Some years ago. Nowadays they live longer due the better rust conservation. It was even quite old, when you think about the general situation in the 60ies and 70ies. Back then a plenty of cars were scrapped in much younger age, some were just 5-6 years old. Mainly caused by the non existing rust-preservation, but sometimes, because it was not fashionable any more (as the late 50ies- style in the mid 60ies). In the worst rust-times in the 70ies, some cars were known, that they will not survive their 2nd TÜV-inspection (back then all 2 years) because they were so rotten. Many Alfas, especially Alfasud and GTV, also several Fiats. But German made cars weren't much better, as the Escort I and the 1974 VW Golf.
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 21:29	Hm. BTW, what happened with steel in 70s?
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 21:33	ingo wrote It was in the "bad 13th year", the average age, when most cars were scrapped. Some years ago. Nowadays they live longer due the better rust conservation. It was even quite old, when you think about the general situation in the 60ies and 70ies. Back then a plenty of cars were scrapped in much younger age, some were just 5-6 years old. Mainly caused by the non existing rust-preservation, but sometimes, because it was not fashionable any more (as the late 50ies- style in the mid 60ies). In the worst rust-times in the 70ies, some cars were known, that they will not survive their 2nd TÜV-inspection (back then all 2 years) because they were so rotten. Many Alfas, especially Alfasud and GTV, also several Fiats. But German made cars weren't much better, as the Escort I and the 1974 VW Golf. So Nightrider is wrong when he sais Volga rusted quicker than western cars. In fact, russian cars were more resistant to rust, because their metal is very thick.
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 21:36	^Most russian cars were driven in summer season only, and were put into conservation for late autumn and winter. Plus, some were heavily rust-proofed by owners, due to certain reasons.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 21:38	Nightrider wrote ^Most russian cars were driven in summer season only, and were put into conservation for late autumn and winter. Not here. And they did not rust more than western cars from the same period, on the contrary. And they were not heavily rust-proofed by owners. -- Last edit: 2012-07-02 21:39:39
dsl ◊ 2012-07-02 21:42	They started using recycled steel in some cases - allegedly Fiat/Lancia/Alfa etc used steel from Russia - a vague memory that this was part of the Lada transaction, paid partly in steel rather than cash??? Also (for UK at least) they increasingly used salt on roads in winter for ice/snow conditions rather than grit. And a general trend for reducing weight of cars - in the 50s they were built with so much steel that rust took several years to penetrate the thickness of structural elements, but 70s/80s steel was used much more thinly, so rust proved terminal more quickly.
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 21:44	^^But I'm talking about Soviet realms. And if you compare average condition of early 90s Toyota, say MarkII with condition of contemporary 31029... -- Last edit: 2012-07-02 21:45:20
chris40 ◊ 2012-07-02 21:45	The Fiat/Alfa rust problem was partly due to inadequate or non-existent rust protection, but another factor was the inferior quality of the steel used, which I believe was imported from Poland. In fairness this improved early in the 70s; my 1972 Fiat 127 became rather crunchy in less than a year, but the 1974 127 I replaced it with lasted me more than four years with negligible rust.
mike962 ◊ 2012-07-02 21:49	Andre Malraux wrote Not here. And they did not rust more than western cars from the same period, on the contrary. And they were not heavily rust-proofed by owners. the 78 Fiat Ritmo is known as one of the most rustiest cars ever , actually it appears none exist today unrusted and guess what it was made out of soviet steel -- Last edit: 2012-07-02 21:50:58
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 21:50	Nightrider wrote ^^But I'm talking about Soviet realms. And if you compare average condition of early 90s Toyota, say MarkII with condition of contemporary 31029... I speak only about GAZ 21 and 24 Volga.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 21:52	mike962 wrote the 78 Fiat Ritmo is known as one of the most rustiest cars ever , actually it appears none exist today unrusted and guess what it was made out of soviet steel But maybe it was recycled steel and not so thick as at the soviet cars of the '60s and '70s.
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 22:08	Most of running 24s are rust buckets too. In fact, I can remember only two in mint condition.
3loader ◊ 2012-07-02 22:17	Nightrider wrote ^^And if you compare average condition of early 90s Toyota, say MarkII with condition of contemporary 31029... You cant compare it. Its like compare soviet tanks in 1945 and Japanese of same period.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 23:06	Nightrider wrote Most of running 24s are rust buckets too. In fact, I can remember only two in mint condition. http://fiat.3xforum.ro/post/423/50/Frumuseti_surprinse_in_trafic/
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 23:10	I just want to say that Soviet cars are not extremely rust-resistant. Not made out of shit, but not out of hyperalloy too.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 23:15	Sure, but, in that period, western cars were not made of hyperalloy neither. Besides, GAZ 21 and 24 Volga have the metal more thick than western cars. Or not? -- Last edit: 2012-07-02 23:17:06
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 23:15	Andre Malraux wrote http://fiat.3xforum.ro/post/423/50/Frumuseti_surprinse_in_trafic/ And? Also, my own 2105 looks very good, nicer than some modern ones, but body is completely helpless by now.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-02 23:19	The GAZ 24 in my link is in pretty good condition for a car which stayed outside many years. I know western cars from the same period which are more rusted. -- Last edit: 2012-07-03 12:40:25
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 23:27	Andre Malraux wrote Besides, GAZ 21 and 24 Volga have the metal more thick than western cars. Or not? According to wiki, 2mm on stressed members, 1.2mm for roof and floor, 0.9mm on body panels...
andrepa ◊ 2012-07-02 23:31	the Rover - nickename auntie - looks quite unrusted, even underside shiny white , and without accident, i guess it is more like ingo says for fashionable reasons in time of economical miracle, i know all these 50ies cars, although beeing not that old, as my father has taken me to scrapyards with doezens of Borgward Isabellas, i am sure they were scrapped because it wasn´t en voque anymore in 1967 , not because rusted. The only Borgward P100 Taxi was scrapped after ten years, the owner said to me, it wasn´t worth to preserve! There are preserved Mercedes Taxis 60 years old! -- Last edit: 2012-07-02 23:54:56
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-02 23:32	Andre Malraux wrote The GAZ 24 in my link is in pretty good condition for a car who stayed outside many years. I know western cars from the same period which are more rusted. Maybe owner just took care about it? How about... http://pavelmaltsev.ru/blog/oldvolga2.jpg
ingo ◊ 2012-07-03 09:38	Nightrider wrote Hm. BTW, what happened with steel in 70s? The generally assumed reason is, that in that years of the first energy crisis after autum 1973, a lot of recyled steel with inferior quality, purchased in the DDR and the USSR, was used by all European car-makers. In Germany, when someone says it was the "DDR-Blech", everyone knows what's meant. It's said, that there was too much dirt and order metals in this recyled steel, for the the bad quality. Recently an old automotive-engineer told me annother reason. These problems shall been caused by the new (in the early 70ies) electric powered way to cook steel. The temperature of the fusion in the furnace was lower, so lower quality was the result.
ingo ◊ 2012-07-03 09:45	andrepa wrote to scrapyards with doezens of Borgward Isabellas, i am sure they were scrapped because it wasn´t en voque anymore in 1967 , not because rusted. There was annother reason, why they were scrapped: hysteria by the owners, after Borgward get in bankrupcy. Some have thought, they cannot hold these cars any more and gave them away. Due that company's collapse the prices for used Borgward-products collapsed, too. Same happened with the (former solid) brand-reputation - which has caused even lower values of the cars. Same happened a few years later with Glas-cars. More later with Simca-Talbot-cars and not a too long time ago with Rover, too.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-03 15:35	Nightrider wrote Maybe owner just took care about it? By keeping it outside? I don't think so.
Nightrider ◊ 2012-07-03 16:58	^ Are you sure that it was keeping outside for a whole life and not overfilled with rust-protection? BTW, old "Za rulem" magazines contains a lot of info about DIY rustproofing....
dsl ◊ 2012-07-03 17:06	Nightrider wrote DIY rustproofing.... Traditional UK 1960s DIY method was painting underside of car with waste engine oil after each oil change. Supposed to have been very effective.
Andre Malraux ◊ 2012-07-03 17:13	Nightrider wrote ^ Are you sure that it was keeping outside for a whole life and not overfilled with rust-protection? If not for a whole life, for some years anyway. I know a 1968 Fiat 1800 which stayed in garage for decades and in these last three years was kept in the street, because the son of the owner bought a new car. In these three years it rusted beyond any possible repair. About the other thing, here rust protection applied by owners was not a common practice. More than that, judging by appearances, this GAZ 24 has the original paint. If it was not repainted, it means rust protection work has not been made. -- Last edit: 2012-07-03 22:52:48
ingo ◊ 2012-07-04 21:45	Andre Malraux wrote I know a 1968 Fiat 1800 which stayed in garage for decades and in these last three years was kept in the street, because the son of the owner bought a new car. In these three years it rusted beyond any possible repair. A fellow of me (the owner of /vehicle_268800-Mercedes-Benz-280-SE-W116.html ) has made this experience 30 years ago with a 1st hand grandmother-owned, garage parked 30.000 km-Simca 1501 (rustfree, when he purchased it!). It was incredible, he said. The rust wasn't growing - it was an eruption After two years lantern-parking he needed a hand brush and a bucket to clean off the rests... -- Last edit: 2012-07-04 21:47:01

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1950 Rover 75 [P4]

1950 Rover 75 [P4] in Die schwarze Kobra, Movie, 1963

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