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2001 Buick Sail S-RV 
Class: Cars, Wagon — Model origin: 
— Built in: 
— Made for: 
![[*]](/res/star.png){kind=small}
Background vehicle
Comments about this vehicle| Author | Message |
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◊ 2011-01-26 20:40 |
![[Image: 284461-mplayerc_2011-01-23_22-57-06-67.jpg]](http://pics.imcdb.org/0ge28/284461-mplayerc_2011-01-23_22-57-06-67.jpg) Btw, is the model origin for the Corsa B sedan/wagon Germany? I think Brazil or China fits much better. |
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◊ 2011-01-26 20:55 |
Model origin: Brazil — Built in: China — Made for: CN |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-01-26 23:29 |
Brazil? the Sail??? are you okay??? |
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◊ 2011-01-26 23:57 |
only a Chinese version of the corsa wagon |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-01-27 01:29 |
But its the chinese version, sure its diffent compares to the narcosur crap. |
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◊ 2011-01-27 01:33 |
but it is still a corsa wagon |
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◊ 2011-01-27 12:58 |
 guys, calm down .gif ";)") a) Is the car above identical with the Opel-version Link to "de.wikipedia.org" ? It seems, it has a bigger third side window. b) Something interesting about the Corsa Wagon in the German Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Corsa_B Quote: "Der richtige Name des knapp über vier Meter langen Opel Corsa B Caravan lautet Chevrolet Corsa Station Wagon. Er wurde von 1997 bis 2001 in Argentinien (Rosario) gebaut. Nach Europa importiert wurde er nur durch Opel Italia. Ursprünglich ist er aber ein deutsches Produkt. Er ist das Ergebnis einer Gesellenprüfung im Opelwerk Rüsselsheim. Opel sah aber auf dem europäischen Markt keine Absatzchancen für dieses Modell. Deswegen verschwand dieses Projekt für einige Jahre in der Schublade." this means in English: "The real name of the, a bit longer than 4m, Opel Corsa B Caravan is Chevrolet Corsa Station Wagon. It was built between 1997 to 2001 in Argentina (Rosario). It was imported to Europe only by Opel Italia. But originally it's a German product. It was the result of a journeyman's examination in the plant of Rüsselsheim. Opel didn't see any chances for the European market. So it was resided for some years in the drawer" P.S. So it was only developed in Germany, but always produced in Argentina. P.S. I see, that my linked pic is wrong. I mixed up the 5-door-Hatchback with the Station Wagon. -- Last edit: 2011-01-27 13:00:43 |
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◊ 2011-01-27 14:10 |
Only when ingo decides to like Marmite. |
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◊ 2011-01-27 14:58 |
I'll buy a Morris Marina, put a piano on its roof and play it while driving if that happens.... |
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◊ 2011-01-27 15:44 |
First find your Marina  |
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◊ 2011-01-27 16:24 |
I didn't say that I intend to buy one - but so far I've found this fuel filter Link to "www.quoka.de" and this auction on ebay http://cgi.ebay.de/MORRIS-MARINA-2-3-RADBREMSZYLINDER-/370478211284 and that's a start if I should lose this "bet", but that only happens if Ingo changes his mind about Marmite- which isn't very likely IMHO. -- Last edit: 2011-01-27 16:58:52 |
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◊ 2011-01-27 16:35 |
@Chris40: There you go: http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/115829  And that isn't the only one I've found so far. In fact, there are at least 2 1/2 more... -- Last edit: 2011-01-27 17:19:50 |
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◊ 2011-01-27 16:45 |
Come on Ingo - give Marmite another try, so that cl82 has to rescue a Marina... |
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◊ 2011-01-27 17:04 |
@dsl: It's not that urgent, I can easily do without a Marina. By the way: As both you and Chris are British, it's actually rather your duty to rescue and preserve this milestone of British automotive history, isn't it? |
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◊ 2011-01-27 17:44 |
But I've got to save all those (Scottish-built) Hillman Imps first, plus the Avengers and Hunters. I'd have to retrain the servants if I started saving Marinas as well. |
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◊ 2011-01-27 18:39 |
@cl82: the problem with the idea, you are mentioning is the British air, dsl likes so much: After 15 years in the air of Stewartstown/Northern Ireland: http://img522.imageshack.us/i/img3715wb.jpg/ After 15 years outside in the air of Kingston upon Hull: http://img340.imageshack.us/i/img0012wl.jpg/ and: http://img683.imageshack.us/i/img3714lt.jpg/ no, we didn't used any tools for that, only our hands! To compare: after 15 years in the Belgian air of Houthalen-Helchteren: http://img694.imageshack.us/i/img0014gw.jpg/ O.k., helpless rotten wrecks, too - but indeed not as extrem crumbled as the UK-wrecks. All pics are from 1999/2000 |
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◊ 2011-01-27 18:41 |
Naah, let cl82 find his Marina. I've still a tin of ALDI-UK-Haggis in my board, would this count, too?  |
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◊ 2011-01-27 18:45 |
Better than nothing What will you do - here are no active Austrians, so noone to tease from here. About Belgians we don't have so many jokes like the Dutch, so that topic is for them. My Swedish friends have told me some jokes about the Norwegians, but I forgot them. Anyways, we have talked more about the question, in which European countries the girls are the cutest  |
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◊ 2011-01-27 18:55 |
... or road salt in the winter. The air does not affect well-made cars ..... |
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◊ 2011-01-27 19:34 |
Wouldn't 'millstone' be more apt than milestone? I have enough trouble avoiding buying the odd unusual early nineties Rovers and the odd American car anyway. |
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◊ 2011-01-27 19:40 |
Hrrmmphh, I'm still a bit pissed, because my links with the appropriate cars for cl82 doesn't work. Maybe no all on one time. Annother try: Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" No kidding, I really thought about it, when I had a fresh driving license and only pocket money back in the late 80ies .gif ":)") |
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◊ 2011-01-27 19:42 |
Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" If it would be a 1974-version in dark red and with beige cloth-seats, I would really think about it - my grandmother had such -- Last edit: 2011-01-27 19:47:07 |
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◊ 2011-01-27 19:44 |
No problem, there are some orignal UK-cars waiting for cl82! Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" Link to "suchen.mobile.de" |
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◊ 2011-01-27 19:45 |
You have realized the fact, that you will never get them so cheap as today? |
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◊ 2011-01-27 20:11 |
Don't look to me, I never liked the Marina. It replaced (very inadequately) one of my great loves, the Minor 1000. |
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◊ 2011-01-27 23:44 |
@ingo: Thanks a bunch for your great suggestions. Why did I know there's a Yugo, an AWS and some Reliants in your selection? (Most of the asking prices are more than impudent BTW.) It really looks like an "All-time worst collection- except for the IFA. That thing has some rural charme. Sadly, 3 links didn't work. Please let me know which 1974 car you meant. Yesterday an acquaintance of mine offered me a car which is better than all the nonsense you posted put together: 2-door(!) 1978 Opel Rekord E 2.0S, metallic-blue, H-Kennz., 1 year TÜV and a vinyl-roof. However, my VW still has 1 1/2 years "TÜV" left, so I declined. A propos VW: I've just found a quite acceptable K70 for sale: Link to "www.google.de" |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-01-28 01:44 |
Wooow  im lost with this thread but... for the cl82 question, hmmm, probably when Gomselmash11 not exists or the brazilians have flooded (???) |
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◊ 2011-01-28 21:21 |
@cl82: thanks for your link. It's not really according, but these kinds of mistaking happens quite often... Anyways, the actual in Germany offered K 70 are all overpriced, resp. are overpriced cobbled wrecks. As my Omega starts to get more and more exhausted (rust comes up, the front axle wobbles, the Michelin-winter-tires are getting thin - after 150.000 km and 3 1/2 years without a summer's rest - and the AC is broken since 3 years - but the last 3.500 km up to 300.000 I want to make anyhow), I'm little bit starting to think about a new all-day-car. But not as strong my wife is doing for her new car. I could use my K 70, sure - but we only have one garage at the house, which my wife is obstructing (you see, what a loving husband I am...) and the K 70 is stored in a farmer's barn 5km away, I would prefer to have a bad-weather-car. I dislike small cars and would prefer to have a car, which has bit towing capacity. As I told m.pfaffeneder ( /vehicle.php?id=347678 ) I'm not a fan of hi-tech. Otherwise: a few hi-tech-goodies as an AC and a http://www.automobil-tuningcenter.de/eberspaecher_hydronic.htm  are great.Annother point is, that I'm working from home mainly, so I don't have to drive the 130 km/h per day as in the past. This means: the next car can be a bit more freaky and the fuel consumption is not too important Until know I haven't said my wife anything, but... - ... there is the background-idea in the brain to ask Animatronixx, if he or his friends have something interesting for sale Or some total unknown import, like a Holden or so (but there ren't ANY here on the market).The idea, to get annother a bit freaky car came in the snowy week before Christmas, when on the other side of the village a guy hits my wife's Astra G a bit in the back (not bad, with 600€ cash, but no repair it was forgotten ). I told the witness, a snow-clearing resident, where we live "the house, where the Bundeswehr-Omega stands in front" and got the answer "Oh, you are the owner of this car?! We all know it and have talked about it several times." -- Last edit: 2011-01-28 21:31:07 |
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◊ 2011-01-28 21:23 |
P.S. The 1974-car would be a DAF 44 P.S.II To drive a freaky, unusual car has some disadvantages  You cannot go around "undercover". This was the experience, when I drove such a /vehicle_118734-NSU-1200-1970.html in the mid-90ies. Back then I was always straying around, every weekend (disco's, different "acquaintances" in different towns, etc.) In the Ruhr-Area are living 8 million people, but it was frightened, how often I was asked later on "I've seen your car in xxx, what have you done there?" -- Last edit: 2011-01-28 21:30:22 |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-01-28 21:29 |
Agree with you ingo... i like the old cars, because its more cheap the maintenance |
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◊ 2011-02-01 17:03 |
So we should change (for the 2nd or 3rd time) the Chevrolet Corsa Wagon origin to Germany? |
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◊ 2011-02-04 22:05 |
Is that how many km your Omega has on the clock? |
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◊ 2011-02-04 22:12 |
Yes |
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◊ 2011-02-04 22:16 |
That's pretty good! How much money have you had to spend on it in repairs? (although we live in different countries with different currencies) -- Last edit: 2011-02-04 22:16:30 |
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◊ 2011-02-04 22:35 |
Hmm, I've saved the receipts, but the most work was done by a friend or by the local garage ("taxfree", without a receipt ) At least not much, except some new brakes in front and back, one exhaust and -a typical Omega B-problem- several front-axle-bearing-kits - except the real annoying totaled injection-system in November 2008, at 252.000 km  This has cost about 1900 €, even I got the part for a friendship-price and the work "without a receipt" from our local garage. It was a big question back then, to let repair it or to get rid off the car at eBay and buy something else. But I had absolutely no money left back then, as in this year we had bought the house, so the repairing was the cheapest possibility, though the value of the car wasn't really high any more.And 8 weeks later three facts came up, which would have caused a different decision, when I would have known them before: - I broke my leg and stayed at home for the six weeks of the worst winter-time - I got the relase for my home-office (before that I had to drive 65km to the office every day) - The German government has presented the "Abwrackprämie" With that knowledge, we surely had given the Omega away for the Abwrackprämie-crushing (yes, it was a hateful idiotic wasting of working cars and the big lie "good for the environment", but with the non-running Omega it would have been really the most lucrative way for us), my wife had bought a new car (she still has to drive 65 km to work, but in the other direction), and I would have taken my K 70 for my purpose of driving and my wife's 2000' Astra G 1.7 DTi we had kept for driving at bad weather or transporting some goods. Otherwise: how pissed I would be, if I would have bought annother car than let repair the Omega... -- Last edit: 2011-02-04 22:36:16 |
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◊ 2011-02-04 22:42 |
P.S. The AC is broken since over 3 years. It's just a little defect valve - but it's not to replace as a single part. You have to buy the whole piping, going round the engine - 240 € plus 19% tax at the Opel-dealer, not available aftersales market. And for replacing it, you have to dismantle nearly the whole front (grille, bumper, radiator, generator, etc...) My friend's idea is, to drill a new valve into/onto the old one, but until know we weren't able to spend the time and work for that. Fortunately the marvellous http://www.eberspaecher.com/servlet/PB/menu/1004458_l2/index.html is still alive But also replaced, back in 2006 for 650 € -- Last edit: 2011-02-04 22:42:40 |
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◊ 2011-02-04 23:43 |
My Omega (my dad bought it 13 years ago, it's been mine for the last 3 years) has done 112,000 miles (or 180,000 km) and I've spent about £2,000 in repairs over the last 2 years. The biggest one was replacing the ABS controller pump which cost £900 (and the replacement part wasn't even new), it had to be done because the ABS and Traction Control dashboard light kept coming on (first on and off, then the whole time) and this meant it failed it's MOT test (by law a car has to pass every year). Also a year ago it was leaking water. It's 2.5 V6 automatic estate, Tourer trim level, made in 1996. It still runs nicely even if it's quite a gas guzzler (nowadays it gets about 18 mpg on short journeys around town, 27 mpg on a good motorway run). Also it's got more space than any estate car made nowadays (the crate I put my labrador in probably wouldn't fit in any of them). My AC doesn't work either, not since the whole engine was taken out 6 years ago, mechanically it still works but I think the freon leaked out or something. -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 00:00:05 |
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◊ 2011-02-04 23:52 |
The little valve has caused a freon leak, it's the only cause for the AC's defect, everything else of the AC is fine (resp.was it 3 years ago). Next week I'll have to bring it to the garage again. The front wheels are wobbling. Maybe a rubber-metal-bearing again. And rust ist coming up, especially at the driver's door. P.S. When the engine-electronic-warning-light is burning, it's usually a sign for a big defect - but at my Omega it's a really tiny reason, a loose contact of the brake-light-contact, somewhere underneath the dashboard, behind the brake-pedal. But it's the only way, not to expect a major breakdown, when this lamps is on... -- Last edit: 2011-02-04 23:55:36 |
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◊ 2011-02-04 23:57 |
*cough* due all these (very slightly off-topic) discussion, we neglected the question about correct orign of the car on the main pic |
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◊ 2011-02-05 00:03 |
At the moment the engine management system light keeps coming on and off but it could just be a minor sensor starting to wear out (otherwise the car seems fine) -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 00:05:55 |
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◊ 2011-02-05 00:08 |
Sorry for my choice of words, I mean exactly this light. When the brake-light-sensor is the reason, it goes off, when you press the brake. Normally I'm not a fan of hi-tech, but in this case the fault recorder is a great thing - how nervous and anxious you will be, when this light is on and you have no idea why, and you expect a total breakdown within the next minutes! |
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◊ 2011-02-05 00:24 |
As my Dad says, the more electronics there are on a car, the more things there are to go wrong (so God knows what it's like owning on old Mercedes S-Class or something). -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 00:25:24 |
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◊ 2011-02-05 16:52 |
for this one it seems clear now, no? But what about the Chevrolet version? It is still the same car I guess? |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:03 |
As Wiki says, this Corsa Station Wagon was only produced in Argentina, so only as Chevrolet. Named as Opel (Corsa B Caravan) were only the few cars, which were exported to Italy. Although the orign design was based on the idea of a single guy in Rüsselsheim. "Orign Argentina" should be correct IMHO. |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:07 |
must come from Brazil because the project was initiated in Brazil, and was only made in Argentina to save on taxes |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:23 |
Wikipedia -see my literally translations about the Corsa Station Wagon above- says something different. The article records only the Argentinian plant in Rosario as production-location. Nothing about Brazil in this text. |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:38 |
It is a guy in Germany who designed a wagon from a car conceived in Germany, which was then built in Argentina. For me it is still origin from Germany. Even if only made in Argentina... -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 17:38:41 |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:42 |
 with that reasoning, we had to check every single version, model-year or body-version of every single vehicle here, where the designer/constructor was sitting... |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:45 |
Changing a detail in a model-year does not make it a new vehicle And for the design of the model itself, if the car was conceived in German offices why would it have a South-American origin? That's why there is a separate field for origin & made in... Usually other versions are conceived in the same office as the standard version. For example it is quite probably that the pickup was conceived in South-America but from what was said above, I do not see what makes the wagon as conceived there. -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 17:46:57 |
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◊ 2011-02-05 17:59 |
If we would go just a half step beyond, we could list the VW Karmann Ghia as origin Italy, same with the Glas 1700 and the Porsche 356 as orign Austria. |
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◊ 2011-02-05 18:01 |
... and the BMW Isetta as origin Italy.... |
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◊ 2011-02-05 18:02 |
For the Isetta it seems logical to me that it is from Italy. For the others, I do not know since I do not know when they have been conceived... (not only the body style, but the whole car: for the Corsa wagon we have design from germany, base car from germany, inside of the car from germany... that makes a lot from germany ) -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 18:03:43 |
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◊ 2011-02-05 18:13 |
And this as origin Britain: /vehicles.php?make=Dixi&model=3%2F15+DA&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on /vehicles_make-BMW_model-DA2.html /vehicles.php?make=BMW&model=DA3&modelMatch=2&modelInclChassis=on /vehicles_make-Rosengart_model-5CV.html /vehicle_40629-Willys-Whippet-1927.html |
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◊ 2011-02-05 18:26 |
I have an uncle who works at GM I ask him about the corsa wagon and soon I'll tell you what he told me |
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◊ 2011-02-05 18:59 |
For what it's worth I think I agree with antp on this one, because we know in this specific case that it was designed in Germany (but not used). With some others mentioned (BMW Isettas, BMW Dixi, Rosengart and yesterday discussions about 30s Nissan Type 70) the key is they are known licensing arrangements/collaborations, so origin is country of original birth, not production. But when it gets to a second stage licensing (eg South American-made Isettas) it is less clear-cut due to uncertainty about who did the licensing (Isetta or BMW?). The next stage is when tooling/design is sold or inherited and the design then becomes modified in new home. Millions of examples - UK Avengers and Hunters around the globe would be my favourite examples - but I suggest something major has to happen uniquely created in the new home for origin to change - eg re-engine (Peugeot engines into Paykan Hunters, Australian Marinas with local 2.6 engines), new body variants (eg ZA Cortina/Sierra pickups, some unique SEATs with FIAT roots such as 133) or major facelift (Chinese Roewe 75). These will have to be individual value judgements - impossible to create solid guidelines. One element is whether the design is still current in country of origin or now long obsolete (eg former Iron Curtain versions of Fiat 124, or Russian ZIL/ZIS development of pre-war Packards). Another is the independence of the new owners from the original and therefore the lack of any original input (eg Ford Corcel from Renault 12, S American VW versions of Avenger). But these scenarios do not really exist here - it seems to be a GM in-house use of their own design without major changes. Does that help? -- Last edit: 2011-02-05 19:00:25 |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-02-05 19:12 |
Well, for the case of the VW 1500, i think the origin: Argentina as well. |
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◊ 2011-02-06 14:05 |
Eeeehh, we have a car with a very similar history here, but it's -IMHO absolute correctly- listed as origin of the production country: /vehicles_make-Volkswagen_model-Typ+3.html Also based on a prototype, planned and designed in Germany, but never built here. After some years of storage in the drawer, hte plans were used for a foreign market. The prototype still exists. No idea, how it was with the Corsa Station Wagon? Was there a Rüsselsheim-made prototype or mock-up or were there only plans/blueprints made? |
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◊ 2011-02-06 14:42 |
Can the origin field be modified to accept 2 flags - would show Flag1/Flag2 with Flag1 being used for the primary design country and Flag2 an optional insert when a 2nd country either produces a previously unused design or makes significant changes? If so it would allow cases like this and many of the other examples mentioned to be fully recognised. |
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◊ 2011-02-08 18:55 |
Bought 5 minutes ago: Link to "cgi.ebay.de" Loughable, isn't it? |
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Gomselmash11 ◊ 2011-02-14 00:34 |
Agree |
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