Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
cibup ◊ 2019-02-12 03:29
supcoach ◊ 2019-02-12 04:04	230 SL??
VinniethePanda ◊ 2019-02-13 04:50	Yep mid 60's Mercedes-Benz 230 SL Pagoda
zodiac ◊ 2019-02-17 15:51	@VinniethePanda: It's usually very difficult to tell a precise year of the W113, as the almost iconic status it has got has meant that almost any wreck is worth saving. However, the spares are difficult to find if one wants an original restoration and thus most of them becomes a mish mash of modelyears. The W113 was introduced as 230 SL, became 250 SL in 1966 and finally 280 SL in 1968 and the production went on until 1972. Having that said, the early filming date of this argues this is a car that has not underwent restoration, and could thus be judged by what is visible. Hence the larger hubcaps should identify this as a 1968+ 280 SL.
Ingo ◊ 2019-02-17 16:22	zodiac wrote ... However, the spares are difficult to find if one wants an original restoration and thus most of them becomes a mish mash of modelyears. ... No. There's nearly to other classic car, where the availability of NOS and remanufactured spare parts is that perfect as for the W113. You even can buy them at the official Mercedes-dealership - but the stuff is expensive. And due the iconic status, as you mention, there are a plenty of crooks, who try to make money with cobbled wrecks, sold for incredible prices. Those guys don't spend money for original Mercedes-parts for original Mercedes-prices.
zodiac ◊ 2019-02-18 14:43	@ingo: That is a relative truth. The problem with all spare parts availability is that during the time period a car is made sub contractors come and go, some spare parts wasn't up to standard and some are that complex only one is saved for the future. I can mention one example. A few years ago when I cleaned the petrol tank on the 1967 250 SE W108 I have at home, I found that the brushes were worn on the rear petrol pump. Because of that I went to the local Mercedes dealer and asked if I could buy a set of new ones. They said no as it had stopped being available many years ago, and suggested I should buy a new pump instead. However that was a 1968+ pump which looked very different, and to be able to mount that one I would have to rearange a lot. The price was EUR 1.000, somewhat steep to me if it didn't even look the same. I decided to ask local car electric firms and found a list of spare numbers to the pump, and with that I found some brushes on the Internet for a very reasonable EUR 10. Mind you, there was one alternative; I found out that KHD (Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz) used the same pump to some engine(s?) and when I phoned them, one bloke said they had some three left and for sale although he couldn't sell them to me as I had to go through the Swedish dealership. But, he said, he would advice me to sit down when they told the price. It turned out to be somewhere between EUR 7.000 and EUR 8.000 (!). I would imagine there are at least some such spare part problems to the VW K 70 as well. -- Last edit: 2019-02-18 15:16:10
Ingo ◊ 2019-02-18 17:34	@zodiac: the spare part situation of the K 70 is very simple: nothing is available (o.k., except windscreens and -terrible- exhausts). Nothing. We K 70-freaks have to help ourselves. We are absolutely on our own. The owner of a classic Benz has a good chance to get NOS parts at the official dealership. We not at all. Since over 25 years not any more. -- Last edit: 2019-02-18 17:37:18
zodiac ◊ 2019-02-19 12:24	@ingo: As you might know, I have a 1960 Ford Zephyr as well Link to "www.car.info" and the spare parts availability to those is very sparce indeed. However, there are ways to come around that problem: - One is to look what companies that were sub contractors when the car was new. Then you can hunt for spare catalogues on classic car markets and then with the help of those find your spares on consecutive markets. - Some spares are available on the Internet, like various eBay's. - Some car clubs might help locating spares. - Don't give up!
Ingo ◊ 2019-02-19 12:56	@zodiac: thanks for yor solace But your tipps are not really new for me - I'm active in the classic car scene now for nearly 30 years P.S. you forgot to mention the most important point: connections With connections you will finally got everything you wanted to have (and even things, you had never thought about before). -- Last edit: 2019-02-19 13:01:09
zodiac ◊ 2019-02-21 11:36	@ingo: I believe you have described this problem with the K70 before, but please try to understand that there are problems with old Mercs as well. Yes, there are parts available. Not the parts that I want, but (usually) later versions of something which look very out of place. (One example: If I want a wheel Link to "mercedesclubs.de" I can indeed buy one, but it look like this Link to "www.german-spob.com" or this Link to "www.german-spob.com" . Neither version is nowhere near what it is supposed to look like.)) Next problem: If I want to do something to the mechanical side, there're a lot available, but to a price that is bejoynd my understanding. The early fuel injections is based upon Diesel engineering, which means that a fuel injection pump is a converted Diesel injection pump, but with much lower preassure. Last time I looked a new one was EUR 9.000, but that was a few years ago so it might be much more expensive today. My biggest problem is that the 1967 Mercedes 250 SE [W 108] at home is worth some EUR 10.000 until 15.000 at best, and if I would decide to replace the both fuel pumps mentioned, I'd spent more than the car is worth, not mentioned the purchase price. Which means that NOTHING more is then ever being allowed to break as the economy is bejoynd repair. However, there're ways to come around this problem, and that is what is happening on the old Mercedes car scene today. That is to concentrate on cars that are worth more. SE Coupés usually sell from EUR 40.000 to EUR 50.000, Pagodas from EUR 50.000 to EUR 60.000, and some ask twice that, and SE Convertibles begin with EUR 100.000 where the sky is the limit. And then one wonders why there're so few four door cars on classical meetings... Concerning the Zephyr, and ultimately my 1957 Zodiac I have in bits. Contacts has so far mostly generated in old bits that has to be renovated. I have no idea when the Zodiac will be finnished. -- Last edit: 2019-02-21 11:51:26
the sad biker ◊ 2019-02-21 12:37	Is there no-one that can refurbish your old fuel pumps? Watching a repeat of Wheeler Dealers last night (BMW 2002) the Kugelfischer (sp?) pump can be overhauled, do Mercs run a similar mechanical system? If you're not an originality freak, how about upgrading to throttle bodies?
VinniethePanda ◊ 2019-02-22 00:44	Mercedes-Benz SL W113 Pagoda Fuel Pump www.theslshop.com (UK) £970.00 - £1,220.00 Fuck me!!!!
VinniethePanda ◊ 2019-02-22 00:46	Link to "www.ebay.co.uk"
VinniethePanda ◊ 2019-02-22 00:48	Two pumps for £235, not bad.
the sad biker ◊ 2019-02-22 01:02	Vinniethepanda wrote Two pumps for £235, not bad. They're low pressure carb type, mechanical injection pumps are massively expensive, 1200 quid for a refurb from the SL shop.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2019-02-22 08:59	Another rude language warning from me. There is no need for these expletives, they make your brain look small, please don’t.
zodiac ◊ 2019-02-22 12:04	@the sad biker: Thank you for your concern. The rear pump is now sorted, but I have a slight problem with the main one. When I have been to the Bosch dealers they have told me they have got rid of the renovation and testing facilities for the low preassure petrol pumps, but says they could send it to someone that could renovate them. The problem is that they will not tell me where, and as I have a friend who resently lost some valuable parts when he sent them away, I'm not willing to do just that. And that's where the price for a new one comes in. I'm now trying to find a way round the problem, and at the moment I'm waiting for an answer from a friend who said he might know where to find a person who bought the machinery from the Bosch dealer, and has enough knowledge to understand what he is doing. Fingers crossed.
VinniethePanda ◊ 2019-02-22 22:09	johnfromstaffs wrote Another rude language warning from me. There is no need for these expletives, they make your brain look small, please don’t. While I will take your concerns about 'rude language' on board, and apologise, and adjust my responses accordingly, I must however take exception to your very wide and all encompassing observation that using a profanity indicates I somehow have a 'small brain'. I can assure you as far as I am aware my brain is a perfectly respectable size, in full use on a regular basis, in full working order and perfectly lively. If you wish to impose a pseudo moral ruling against profanity that's fine, but I would thank you not to cast aspersions as to my mental abilities, lest we err on the side of rude personal attacks which I absolutely do take umbrage against.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2019-02-23 09:16	You obviously misconstrued my comment. I said “they make your brain look small” suggesting that people who read such words will immediately think “here is a person whose small brain only allows him to use such foul language.” The further inference is entirely yours. However, your apology for the word is most welcome, and I feel certain that the word, or its relatives, will not appear again in your posts, for which you are thanked in advance. This site, if I understand other contributors correctly, aspires to become a document of record used by any and all, the appearance in it of the language of the gutter or the public bar would hardly help it to achieve this. As far as moral stance, there is none on my part. I use the word on occasion, but do strive never to write or type it. My grandchildren see this database, need I say more? -- Last edit: 2019-02-23 21:16:33
Ingo ◊ 2019-02-26 18:30	@zodiac: how well you are connected in the classic Mercedes scene? There you surely will find an expert for refubishments of such mainstream parts of such a mainstream model. A W108 is indeed a well sold mainstream model, which runs all over the world. With patience and -more important- good connections you will finally find everything you need. My dream car is the 300 SEL 6.3, a mundane looking car, but inside with elaborate and expensive high tech, stuff which makes me anxious. But even for this high end car you will finally get everything, often for reasonable prices. The guys from the M100-Club (I have loose contacts over some years) have told me, that that's no reason for panic. -- Last edit: 2019-02-26 18:37:42
Ingo ◊ 2019-02-26 18:45	johnfromstaffs wrote ... My grandchildren see this database, need I say more? Don't you think, that your perjoative comments about Rootes-crap do have a negative influence on your grandchildren? Due this indoctrination they may think, that Rootes crap is crap indeed.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2019-02-26 20:19	At their distance from the termination of the Rootes company they have no knowledge of, nor interest in, any such pedestrian transport. My elder grandson (15) is only interested in Porsches and Ferraris, and the younger one (5) doesn’t read the subscripts. My two granddaughters (17 and 5) have no interest in cars at all, apart from being transported in them.
zodiac ◊ 2019-03-01 11:12	ingo wrote @zodiac: how well you are connected in the classic Mercedes scene? There you surely will find an expert for refubishments of such mainstream parts of such a mainstream model. A W108 is indeed a well sold mainstream model, which runs all over the world. With patience and -more important- good connections you will finally find everything you need. I'm not sure you understand what I'm trying to say. The 1967 W 108 250 SE is not a mainstream model today. You can maybe say it used to be, if you stretch your imagination a lot, but during the years and a badly developed engine for the 1966 MY, that has meant most of them has been crushed. The W 113 250 SL didn't suffer that problem as it was introduced well into MY 1967, when the engine had been redeveloped. My car share many components with other Mercedes, like the engine and drivetrain with the W 111 and the W 113 of similar years. BUT as it is worth considerably less, one has to be rather careful if one doesn't want to blow the budget. If you believe my car is a mainstream model, please visit a Classic car event, and see how many early W 108's there are compared with the W 113's. I'll guess one to ten, if that. -- Last edit: 2019-03-01 11:14:48
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2019-03-01 11:38	If it makes you feel any better, I had my 2018 C220D serviced for the first time two days ago. It had done 3,800 miles in the year since I bought it, and the service cost £336.52. Expensive oil change, imho.
Ingo ◊ 2019-03-02 17:18	zodiac wrote I'm not sure you understand what I'm trying to say. The 1967 W 108 250 SE is not a mainstream model today. You can maybe say it used to be, if you stretch your imagination a lot, but during the years and a badly developed engine for the 1966 MY, that has meant most of them has been crushed... If you believe my car is a mainstream model, please visit a Classic car event, and see how many early W 108's there are compared with the W 113's. I'll guess one to ten, if that. Well, I'm not really orientated about classic Benz details, I just compare the spare part situation of them (either at the official dealers as on parts markets) with the situation, I am used to have since 30 years and the situation of other car brands, not only of extinct brands. o.k., the classic car events are flooded with W113-Pagodas, but my impression is, that there are also lots of W108 there. Otherwise I only spend a closer look to that range, when it's a 6.3

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1968 Mercedes-Benz 280 SL [W113]

1968 Mercedes-Benz 280 SL [W113] in Entre dos amores, Movie, 1972

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