Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
antp ◊ 2004-07-16 13:29	Poursuite dans Paris avec la 406
Ralph ◊ 2005-01-18 01:23	BMW E34 5er (optically appears like a M5 but this is not a original M5)
Misteraverage ◊ 2005-06-09 03:25	Actually, it is an original BMW M5 E34. Early M5 E34 had that white strip on the tires. Youy can see clearly the M5 badge on the boot lid of the car, during the chase.
thored56 ◊ 2005-11-09 18:24	Ce n'est très probablement PAS une M5 En effet aucune e34 M5 (3,6L ou 3,8L) ne possèdent un pare choc avant ou arrière classique des versions 518-535i, même si les jantes sont effectivement ceux des premières génération de M5 3.6L (les "Turbinerrädern" en 17") De plus dans une M5, les aiguilles du compteur sont rouges, alors qu'ici elles sont blanches. Enfin dans quelques séquences, on voit des jantes alu classiques (les "reuzspeichen" de 15") Donc je pense plutot pour un modèle 6 cylindres avec une double sortie d'echappement : 525, 530 ou 535i (plutot 535 au son
any1 ◊ 2006-01-27 20:41	It is supposed to be an M5, but during the scene you see the "stunt vehicle" with more mondane rims...
Adrian ◊ 2006-03-16 20:12	The more I look at these pictures, the more I am uncertain this is a genuine E34 M5. First off the pictures with the three guys standing in front of the car - this is a E32 735i. I know it. It's NOT an M5. This car has no purpose, other than flicking on it's high-beams to blind DeNiro and company, and getting shot at - that's it. The other top pictures display a black E34 BMW. Now, look really closely at this car. Yes, it has the proper turbine, 3-piece, white-wall-looking wheels (early E34 M5's used these wheels `91-`93), and is badged as an M5 on the rear deck. But notice that M5 badge. It is mounted incorrectly. If you own a BMW, you know what I mean...it is positioned too far up on the trunk deck lid. It should be mounted closer to the tailights. This car was either re-painted and they slapped on the badge inccorectly, or they ripped off the original badge of a 535i or 525i, and placed the M5 badge on incorrectly to make us think it's an M5. Look at the other pictures closely. The front air dam is very ordinary, it's not like the one on an M5. Also there is no M5 badge located on the driver's side of the grille. Not to mention, all E34 M5's have a unique shinny gray painted rocker-panel on the sides of the car and on the front and rear lower spoiler appron. Look at the rear again - the rear diffuser/valance panel is not like an M5 - it's too plain jane. It's all a fake! Trust me I know these cars! It's weird because I was fooled like everyone else originally, but these pictures prove it's NOT A REAL M5. Too bad. As far as the chase secene with this E34...absolutely amazing! Totally worthwhile. One of the ultimate car chases ever. The sound of this E34 sounds geniune (no cheap dubbing here) - has a bassy, deep throated howl - as a BMW inline-6 should. Man does this car sound spectacular. Great shots of this car, and fantastic stunt driving (hard cornering, weaving in and out of traffic on-coming, a flip, and burns up). A Must See!
Adrian ◊ 2006-03-21 23:08	Thought of another detail too. There is an interior scene with this E34 (shot from the back seat) where you can see the dashboard gauges (Speedo and Tach.). Notice how those gauges do NOT have red needles? They are white. All E34 M5's (and most post `89 M cars) have red needles for the gauges. I bet this is a 535i. But a 525i sounds very similar. What a mystery this is. Also note how the interior had NO wood trim. The US 1989 E34 525i and 535i had none (1st year for US E34). In 1990 the 535i came standard with it. Not sure on the E34 Euro Models. -- Last edit: 2006-03-23 20:43:05
Adrian ◊ 2006-03-27 18:27	Okay, the investigation goes on. I recently studied this 8 min. scene with this E34... an E34 M5 and E34 535i are BOTH used. The M5 appears in 3-4 interior shots, and 1 or 2 exterior shots. Otherwise, an E34 535i is used for the rest. I'd say 90% for the 535i, and 10% for the M5. The scenes which use the M5: Interior shots - close-up of shifter (M stripes), leather center console (M5 only), and seats. Shot from rear window looking inside car, shows rear sunshade (M5 only) and rectangular front headrests (M5 only). 1st shot of interior, close-up of driver from driver's window shows rectangular M5 headrests. Exterior shots - 1 or 2 scenes of M5 cornering/fishtailing viewed from rear, has larger rear apron/diffuser/valence panel (M5 only). Interesting observations: in 2-3 scenes shot from the interior looking at the dash and windshield, notice that the Speedometer and Tachometer are not funtioning? They're off or at 0. In other shots they are functioning, ranging from 50 mph, and 2,500-4,000 rpm. My guess is, the shots with the gauges off indicate it was filmed shot in a studio, with the car off, steering wheel partially disconnected, with a super-impossed screen for view out of windshield. Other shots with gauges working is real footage. Note that the BMW badge/roundel on the steering wheel is not straight, it's crooked - evidence that the wheel was removed earlier, and they snapped the roundel back in while the wheel wasn't straight. Note that the rearview mirror was installed upside-down, in the shot where they are shooting through the back window into the cabin. 535i cross-spoke BBS-style wheels are displayed close-up when the car has a blow-out and flips over. Note the undercarriage when the car is flipping - a metal shield has been installed, to protect the engine and transmission in previous stunts. The steering wheel used in some shots is a non-air bag M5 and/or 535i type.
Nightrider ◊ 2006-06-24 10:47	BTW,can we consider this car as M5 Replica?
Silverstone ◊ 2006-08-01 18:48	that picture of the black BMW makes me laugh for some reason, maybe because of the weird expressions on the people's faces. And about this, i never even thought it was an M5 in the chase at all! -- Last edit: 2006-08-01 18:49:33
explorer4x4 ◊ 2006-08-01 18:57
LateNightCable ◊ 2006-09-25 20:56	Wheels and tires can come from anywhere, but the car did have an M5 badge. And I've never seen a 535i that can run like that car did. One thing that has me wondering though about the authenticity, is the chrome finish trim around the windows. The E34 M5 never had that did it? Also, about any stage filming, everything was filmed on location, no blue screen or anything. The actors were actually in the cars with a stunt driver on the right-hand side. -- Last edit: 2006-09-25 20:59:48
antp ◊ 2006-09-25 20:58	LateNightCable wrote And I've never seen a 535i that can run like that car did. In movies they can make you see what they want (remember the VW Beetle number 53 that beats Ferrari, Maserati, etc. )
benny ◊ 2006-09-26 18:30	Adrian already give us an excellent and long description...
LateNightCable ◊ 2006-10-06 21:04	Both an M5 and a 535i may have been used in the filming, but for all intents and purposes, it is an M5 in the film, simply because it is portrayed as such - and fairly well. Just like everyone would like to imagine that the "General Lee" Dodge Charger from The Dukes of Hazzard was an R/T version, even though almost all of the cars used probably never were, the car was always portrayed as a Charger with a souped up 440 or Hemi or something of that nature - therefore it is. That's the reasoning. Also worth mentioning about the "M5" in Ronin are the engine sound recordings which most surely came from an authentic free breathing M5. -- Last edit: 2006-10-06 21:11:15
Adrian ◊ 2006-11-01 22:31	Wow, now that's what I call follow-up. This is naturally because Ronin is one of the best movies for long European car chase scenes. Regarding the comments from "LateNightCable", first off I am impressed with your comments. Sounds like you have experience with filming cars in movies - do you? You mentioned you saw an M5 badge. And yes, there is one. But read my first comment (longest). It's not in the proper place. You mentioned you can easily get different wheels from anywhere - true. And, just how easy is it to rip off a 525i/535i badge and smack on M5 badge? Very easy. In the first photo (car parked) it has genuine E34 M5 1st generation turbine-style 3-piece wheels. When the car is flipping (final scenes) they are cross-spoke E34/E32 wheels. So, the badges and wheels are the exterior modifications the film-makers did. Also the E34 M5 always had a front M5 badge, located on the left side grille. The M5, like all the other E34's, did have chrome on the doors - the E28 was the exception. As mentioned before, ONLY the M5 has the unique front air-dam, side skirts, and rear valence panel I described in my earlier comments. Almost every exterior shot shows BMW's without these M5 styling cue's. A 535i does sound like this if it's revved high. And an M5 could too. The M5 can just rev a tad higher. You mentioned it all beeing filmed on location not in a studio. Well, explain why the speedomenter and tachometer are not functioning in some interior shots. Also why is the steering wheel badge installed incorrectly? Re-read my previous comments - although long, they are insightful and should enlighten you. Bottom line: Both a M5 and 535i (possibly a 525i), have been used in this movie. I'd say an M5 is used in only 10% of the scenes. Any more questions? (by the way I own a BMW 533i, and am a BMW CCA member, and own tons of BMW literature. Needless to say, I know these cars very well.) -- Last edit: 2006-11-01 22:41:12
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2006-11-01 22:52	Adrian wrote You mentioned it all beeing filmed on location not in a studio. Well, explain why the speedomenter and tachometer are not functioning in some interior shots. The car was probably towed or carried on a trailer -- i.e. really moving down a road, only not under its own power. That way, you wouldn't have to add moving backgrounds with back projection or digital effects work. -- Last edit: 2006-11-01 22:55:05
Adrian ◊ 2006-11-02 17:15	In response to Gaq Halfrunt: That's very interesting. So the shots of the guages functioning mean it's actually being driven, and where they're not it's being trailered. Hmmm, makes sense. Strange they just didn't drive it in all shots - must have been some technical thing (maybe the car was not running well that day).
benny ◊ 2006-11-03 19:08	Really interesting and useful news! Thanks!
Adrian ◊ 2006-11-10 20:57	Here is a video-clip of the famous BMW and Peugot chase. Perhaps now, people will understand all of my various comments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQa-RSSRrVM Note: the begining scene is not included (when the BMW takes off from a parked position).
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2006-11-24 02:43	Adrian wrote In response to Gaq Halfrunt: That's very interesting. So the shots of the guages functioning mean it's actually being driven, and where they're not it's being trailered. Hmmm, makes sense. Strange they just didn't drive it in all shots - must have been some technical thing (maybe the car was not running well that day). It's easier for the actors if they don't have to drive and act at the same time. What's more, all high speed driving has to be done by stunt drivers.
Neptune ◊ 2006-12-01 03:48	Gag Halfrunt wrote It's easier for the actors if they don't have to drive and act at the same time. What's more, all high speed driving has to be done by stunt drivers. Not all high speed driving is done by just stunt drivers; there are exceptions to the rule. (Sometimes it depends on the actors & actresses, if they want to do that sort of thing) Take the movie: Gone in 60 seconds (2000) for example. Some of the primary actors like Nicolas Cage and Angelina Jolie took special stunt driving classes at a stunt driving school just for that movie.
antp ◊ 2006-12-01 13:11	Or Gone in 60 seconds (1974) where the main actor (who was also the director) made the stunts
Tönz ◊ 2007-01-14 20:20	On the DVD extras you see the original registration of the car. It's british, because it had to be right hand driven: The vehicle details for H527 EKJ are: Date of Liability 01 01 2008 Date of First Registration 01 01 1991 Year of Manufacture 1991 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 3430CC CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type Petrol Export Marker Not Applicable Vehicle Status SORN Not Due Vehicle Colour BLACK
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2007-01-14 20:41	Tönz wrote On the DVD extras you see the original registration of the car. It's british, because it had to be right hand driven: They used right hand drive cars for close-ups of the actors in the driving seat. The actor held a dummy steering wheel, while a stunt driver out of shot drove the car. The idea was that the actor's expression would be more authentic if he was really being driven at high speed. The right hand drive cars were only used for these very tight close-ups. I have the DVD and can take captures to illustrate. -- Last edit: 2007-03-02 23:33:19
Tönz ◊ 2007-01-14 22:28	Gag Halfrunt wrote I have the DVD and can take captures to illustrate. That would be neat. Maybe for the other modified cars too: the Audi with additional driving position in the trunk and the Peugeot that's pulled by a W124.
G-MANN ◊ 2007-01-22 23:15	If it's OK, here are some captures from the DVD From the special features on the 2-disc Special Edition Region 2 UK DVD: The British registered BMW: The one they used for the bit where the car flips overs, this one has an M badge on the grille: Natasha McElhone's stunt double, racing driver Michel Neugarten (it's a good thing he never tried to be a drag artist), just about all of the stunt drivers who did all the high-speed driving were racing drivers, even the people who drove the traffic cars that the BMW and the Peugeot dodge head-on. Robert De Niro behind the fake steering wheel in the Peugeot with the stunt driver who is really controlling the car (sorry about the blurry pictures): With the Audi a replica was built (so they said on the DVD) that could be driven from the rear: They also did this with the Mercedes: They used Porsches as camera cars: Here's the Mercedes 500E that towed the Peugeot: -- Last edit: 2007-01-23 13:09:20
G-MANN ◊ 2007-01-22 23:24	Neptune wrote Not all high speed driving is done by just stunt drivers; there are exceptions to the rule. (Sometimes it depends on the actors & actresses, if they want to do that sort of thing) Take the movie: Gone in 60 seconds (2000) for example. Some of the primary actors like Nicolas Cage and Angelina Jolie took special stunt driving classes at a stunt driving school just for that movie. Gone in 60 Seconds is pretty tame compared to the driving they did in this film. I just watched the featurettes on the DVD and there is no mention of any driving school that the actors went to. In fact some of them (including De Niro) were pretty nervous about having to go in the cars with the stunt drivers so they could film some convincing interiors shots (no dodgy back projection in this film). Maybe they did minor bits of driving (Natasha McElhone mentions that she had a simple stunt to do, but her boyfriend had come to watch so got distracted and messed it up) but all the hairy stuff (and there is a lot more hairy stuff than in most recent Hollywood films) was done by professional racing drivers. IMDB says that actor Skip Suddith (who plays Larry) did his own driving and on the DVD he says "John's directions were very point-blank, he said "you don't win points by smashing this thing into a wall" and "I don't want to see those brake lights"", but then some of the stunts featured the Audi that his character drove were done with the customized Audi with the driving seat in the boot.
Tönz ◊ 2007-01-23 01:18	Thanks for documenting this. On the single-DVD I saw a briefer making-of, that did not feature the 911 camera cars and the converted W116.
G-MANN ◊ 2007-01-23 13:09	In the DVD Commentary Director John Frankenheimer tells us they used 4 BMWs and 5 Peugeot 406s during filming and in the bits where they dodged the traffic head-on they used 300 stunt drivers.
Adrian ◊ 2007-02-08 22:35	I've never seen the DVD, and I knew more about the BMW's than anyone else, just by analyzing the scenes, and knowing my BMW's. You think I'd get a little more credit - see older comments. -- Last edit: 2007-02-08 22:35:52
G-MANN ◊ 2007-02-08 22:45	What I've always wondered is could a Peugeot 406 keep up with a BMW M5 (if we assume that's what meant to be in the film even if it wasn't in reality)? Although it was a 3 litre 406.
CarChasesFanatic ◊ 2007-02-08 22:48	Sometimes driving techniques count more than horse power
antp ◊ 2007-02-08 22:57	And when you have to drive in the traffic, even with a fast car the speed is somewhat limited...
CarChasesFanatic ◊ 2007-02-08 22:58	exactly
evvster ◊ 2007-02-14 03:29	The character is an M5 the actual car is not always an M5 in every shot... sometimes it is another car with M5 badges... the audi S8 in the movie is also just an A8 with the S8 badges and S8 wheels
Adrian ◊ 2007-02-16 22:06	If anyone is interested in posting different photos of the BMW E34 (M5/535i...), I'd be more than happy to tell you what shot uses a genuine M5, and what shot does not. Or you can just refer to my earliest comments on how to distinguish a genuine M5 from a fake.
op86 ◊ 2007-02-18 22:41	In film sequences like this you always need more than one of the main cars. There are at least 3 for the BMW 1) LHD Stunt car for long shots 2) RHD Stunt car for closer shots to show the actos 3) Car to be cut in half to be towed by the camera Since the car was out of production the producers presumably had to buy secondhand models and either because they couldn't find enough M5s or were trying to save money and bought cheaper models like the 535. The car is meant to be an M5
ggj ◊ 2007-12-06 00:17	G-MANN: "Here's the Mercedes 500E that towed the Peugeot: [Image: roninbehindscenesmercto5zr.th.jpg]" Could that be the same 500 E that was used in "Taxi"? They look very similar: both red, white indicators and the rims look pretty similar too.
G-MANN ◊ 2007-12-06 12:19	Who knows?
GrkFlyersFan ◊ 2010-08-22 23:00	My father had a '91 535i for many years. This didn't sound like that at all. Anyway, the M5's a great car, can't believe she lost this chase with that thing. Then again, it's DeNiro. That guy beat Ben Stiller in the S500 with a Lincoln Continental in Meet the Parents.
joshce ◊ 2011-01-08 03:47	There is no M5 used in this movie, Im positive. I did a UK reg check on the one with the bodykit which is a 535i sport, and the other is either a 520i or a 525i. in all shots the cars had twin exhaust pipes. only the 520 had a singular pipe. the engine noise sounds genuine bmw straight six but most likely dubbed, as in my experience, neither a 520, 525 or 535 sound this good, although it could be the sound of the 535 being hacked. uk 535 sports are dirt cheap and good strong fast cars for hacking. the 535 sport comes with full M5 bodykit, and recaro style sport seats, excluding the engine and a few other small details they look identical. funny how this thread was started in 04 and Im writing this in 2011. just watched the movie for the first time in a while and was eager to see what exactly was the story with the BMW E34. Im 100% sure that the car in the pictures above from the DVD, that has one wheel up on a ramp is a 535i sport, registered in the UK. Im not sure what the other one is, but its definitely not an M5, probably a 525i or 520i. -- Last edit: 2011-01-08 03:52:07
stratomartin ◊ 2013-11-22 18:08	I found this information rather complete... Ronin is notable for a number of car chases, the last being a particularly lengthy one through the streets and tunnels of Paris; some scenes used up to 300 stunt drivers according to the DVD director commentary. Car work has been a specialty of Frankenheimer, a former amateur racing driver,[3] ever since his 1966 film, Grand Prix. Although action sequences are often shot by a second unit director, Frankenheimer did all these himself, and sometimes rode along. While he was aware of the many innovations in digital special effects since then, he elected to film all these sequences live, to obtain the maximum level of authenticity. To further this, many of the high-speed shots have the actual actors in the cars. Skipp Sudduth did nearly all of his own driving, while other cars were right hand drive models with stunt drivers driving - crashes were handled by a stuntman. To lend additional authenticity, the sound recordist re-recorded many of the vehicles in the chases to ensure that during the editing, the right sounds were dubbed in for each vehicle. Several cars are used in the chases, including an Audi S8 D2, a Peugeot 406, three Peugeot 605s, a Citroën XM, a BMW M5 E34 and Mercedes-Benz 450SEL 6.9, a rare Mercedes-Benz W116 variant with a high-powered engine, as noted by Frankenheimer in the DVD. Most famously, a 1998 Audi S8 quattro, portrayed as stolen to order and then fitted with a nitrous oxide power-booster, is chosen for its bulk, grip and torque and driven in Paris and Nice by Sudduth's character. As a result the car is rated 9th in Car magazine's Top 40 Coolest Movie Cars.[4] The Frankenheimer DVD commentary indicates that the cars were towed through the streets of France at high speed, not simulated, by a Mercedes-Benz 500E.
PDX ◊ 2015-03-21 00:18	Maybe they used the M5 for interior shots and during the car chase and then the 535i during the crash (after Vincent shoots out the Bimmer's tire) hmmm...
LateNight ◊ 2015-06-23 00:32	Definitely an M5 simply for being portrayed as such. This is foreign thought to armchair experts like "Adrian" though, who need an education on the concept of movie reality.
dsl ◊ 2015-06-23 00:50	Tönz wrote On the DVD extras you see the original registration of the car. It's British because it had to be right hand drive. The vehicle details for H527 EKJ are:...... H527 EKJ = BLACK 1991 BMW 535I SPORT 4 DOOR SALOON
Gag Halfrunt ◊ 2015-06-23 01:08	Thanks, but that car was only used for tight close-ups with the actor holding a dummy LHD steering wheel.
KA6AH ◊ 2015-08-15 01:24	It doesn't have the M-Techniks bodykit in any of the scenes so doesn't even look like a genuine M5. Big mistake.
Oliver Wendell ◊ 2019-01-18 07:56	BMW 535i as a BMW M5
bhomburg ◊ 2021-12-06 16:08	Adrian wrote Okay, the investigation goes on. I recently studied this 8 min. scene with this E34... an E34 M5 and E34 535i are BOTH used. The M5 appears in 3-4 interior shots, and 1 or 2 exterior shots. Otherwise, an E34 535i is used for the rest. I'd say 90% for the 535i, and 10% for the M5. The scenes which use the M5: Interior shots - close-up of shifter (M stripes), leather center console (M5 only), and seats. Shot from rear window looking inside car, shows rear sunshade (M5 only) and rectangular front headrests (M5 only). 1st shot of interior, close-up of driver from driver's window shows rectangular M5 headrests. Exterior shots - 1 or 2 scenes of M5 cornering/fishtailing viewed from rear, has larger rear apron/diffuser/valence panel (M5 only). Interesting observations: in 2-3 scenes shot from the interior looking at the dash and windshield, notice that the Speedometer and Tachometer are not funtioning? They're off or at 0. In other shots they are functioning, ranging from 50 mph, and 2,500-4,000 rpm. My guess is, the shots with the gauges off indicate it was filmed shot in a studio, with the car off, steering wheel partially disconnected, with a super-impossed screen for view out of windshield. Other shots with gauges working is real footage. Note that the BMW badge/roundel on the steering wheel is not straight, it's crooked - evidence that the wheel was removed earlier, and they snapped the roundel back in while the wheel wasn't straight. Note that the rearview mirror was installed upside-down, in the shot where they are shooting through the back window into the cabin. 535i cross-spoke BBS-style wheels are displayed close-up when the car has a blow-out and flips over. Note the undercarriage when the car is flipping - a metal shield has been installed, to protect the engine and transmission in previous stunts. The steering wheel used in some shots is a non-air bag M5 and/or 535i type. The interior shots in this movie clearly are not from an M5. M5 instrument cluster has red gauge needles (instead of white as on all other E34s and displayed in the movie), an oil temp gauge instead of the fuel economy gauge and the //M symbol between speedo and tach. The movie car has none of those things - what's shown here is a UK-spec regular E34 instrument cluster: Also, the shift scheme on top of the lever is backlit in the M5, a novelty in its day and a feature that's missing on the car that's shown in the film (the M5 knob is also noticeably thicker to accommodate the bulb, this was before LEDs) and it's missing the //M in the middle of it. The shift knob depicted in the movie car could be ordered as part of a sport package or as stand-alone option on any E34, also lots of aftermarket retrofits out there. This is how the real thing looks like: joshce wrote There is no M5 used in this movie, Im positive. This. -- Last edit: 2021-12-06 16:20:09
dsl ◊ 2023-07-22 20:09	Tönz wrote On the DVD extras you see the original registration of the car. It's british, because it had to be right hand driven: The vehicle details for H527 EKJ are: Date of Liability 01 01 2008 Date of First Registration 01 01 1991 Year of Manufacture 1991 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 3430CC CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type Petrol Export Marker Not Applicable Vehicle Status SORN Not Due Vehicle Colour BLACK Last MOT expired on 11 June 2008. And the plate pops up on this red LHD Xantia Neon wrote

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1991 BMW 535i [E34]

1991 BMW 535i [E34] in Ronin, Movie, 1998

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