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1975 Renault 12 Familiar S Série 1 [R1337] Comments about this vehicle| Author | Message |
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◊ 2007-11-02 12:03 |
Different name, different bumpers and trim: made in Spain. |
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◊ 2007-11-02 18:10 |
But still the same basis, so French car made for Spain (and in Spain, but that's another story  ) |
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◊ 2007-11-02 18:48 |
I agree with Antoine. Yes, it's made in Spain, as some actual modern Clio or what else made in Spain or in Portugal or whatever other contry..., but the basis still remains a R12 Break which is french. There's only a specific trim level for the spanish market, that's why the mention "Made for spain" is used for .gif ";)") |
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◊ 2007-11-02 19:08 |
Old discussion back again...  And again, one field extra would solve the problem: origin / made in / made for. For me it's there is a real difference between 'made in' and 'made for'. And normally the field 'origin' is enough, sometimes 'made in' or 'made for' can give extra info, and in a very few cases even the three can be useful (like the earlier stated Swiss Citroën 2CV AZUL, whose origin is French, but the AZUL was only built in Belgium and the extra indicators on the front wings indicate made for Switzerland). A car 'made for Spain' is a car that has been built outside Spain with any (small or big) difference to the normal equipment. This R12 is immediately recognisable as a FASA-Renault, because of the trim; therefore 'made in Spain'. But if we keep it to 'made for Spain', then there are a lot of cars that must be changed. OK with me, since special info can always be put in the comments. |
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◊ 2007-11-02 20:44 |
"Made for Spain" does not especially mean that it was made outside Spain. I do not see so much cars that would have to be changed, as this is the logic used since the beginning  Some day I will add a "made in" field, and I think that I will try to add it soon as I am fed up with that discussion that comes back several times per day. -- Last edit: 2007-11-02 20:45:04 |
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◊ 2007-11-02 20:51 |
Sorry to bother you, Antoine. You know you're doing a great job. Let's stay with 'made for', and I'll stop discussing this item... |
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◊ 2007-11-02 21:02 |
In my opinion the point "made for" is not very senseful, because so many countries had own regulations for the cars, running there, that a deeper discussion wouldn't reach anything, except the fact, that some nerdic nitpickers (@guys: all of us belongs to this group, don't deny it) will list up their knowledge about cars and their history. But by the way: for me this nerdic nitpicking is funny and relaxing (if it's not too dogged). And I learn a lot of things, which I never have known before, and which you cannot read in usual car- or classic car-magazines. -- Last edit: 2007-11-02 21:02:37 |
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◊ 2007-11-02 21:03 |
I believe the "made for" field makes more sense than the "spirit" field. Not that I question the sense of any of Antoine's hard work, but I would hardly find a reason to criticize the "made for" field. -- Last edit: 2007-11-02 21:06:45 |
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◊ 2007-11-02 21:08 |
"made for" was added to replace the "(US version)" text put after some European cars that had a strange look, or for cars that had a weird name due to the fact that it was the version sold in another country than the one it is originated. |
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◊ 2007-11-02 21:14 |
I can think of several European cars that had "a strange look" (Ro80 anyone), but I wouldn't bill them "{US Version)" because of that More seriously, this field is very useful (unless used for the Infiniti FX billed as "Made for EU", in spite of the fact that none were ever sold in the EU, lingering on around the site ). |
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◊ 2007-11-02 21:43 |
Is the "strange look" (i.e. monster-bumpers and sealed beam-lamps for the U.S.)a reason to remark the "made for", or technical details (ignition systems than carburators for catalysator-countries) or just a different name (Shiguli/Lada; Opel/Vauxhall/Chevrolet Corsa)? Just the definition of this question will provoke a bigger disdussion than the sorting of the pics. |
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◊ 2007-11-02 22:37 |
As I said, visible details or different names. So it is there just to "explain" to the visitor why the car has a different name or why it looks different from the "normal" model. |
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◊ 2007-11-03 20:08 |
I'm not a big fan of this today's 'origin system' (I wrote many times about it), though I'm not sure if we should change it now, untill we won't have something really better. Sometimes it is nearly impossible to say where exactly the car was made (example, how we can tell which VW T5 was made in Germany and which one is from Poland etc. etc.) - what we would do in such cases? I understand that this new field 'made in' would be used only sometimes and not for every car? That's also not good. I think what we should definitely change now is this that we are inconsistent. This Renault has French origin and 'made for E' - ok, but why this VW typ 1 /vehicle.php?id=131635 has Mexican origin? Because the shape of window is different? On the other hand we have old Seats, Zastavas etc. which has Spanish, Yugoslavian origin (and it is very good), but most of the old NSUs (clones of Fiats) have Italian flags, there is more of such examples ('BMC' Innocentis...). -- Last edit: 2007-11-03 20:20:54 |
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◊ 2007-11-03 20:34 |
I list all the Typ 1 as German, so this one was added after the last time I changed the Typ 1 to German/sedan (as at the same time I also edit the coupé and hatchback Typ 1  ) |
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◊ 2007-11-03 20:35 |
I have been debating this. Check my idea at Link to "forum.imcdb.org" |
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◊ 2007-11-04 13:30 |
@weasel: the VW Type 1 is not a good example for that, because the South American made ones, especially the Brazilian (at least all Type 1 Sedan after 1977 were made in Mexico and Brazil) have too many differences to the older European onem that they're nearly a different car. And except a very few privete imported ones, the Type 1 was not availiable in Europe after 1985. Surely, for cars, where the differences aren't so obviously (Polish oder German VW T4 and T5, German,Slovakian,Belgian, Spanish VW Polo's, German,British,Belgian,Polish,Spanish Opel/Vauxhalls and so on...) this kind of discussion only shows, how the forum-members are coming it strong with their knowledge about cars. This is nerdic, surely - but informative anyways. |
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◊ 2007-11-04 22:00 |
Ingo, yes but this R12 is also not identical with the French one. Anyway I continuing this discussion in rjluna2's topic, on the forum: Link to "forum.imcdb.org" |
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◊ 2008-07-20 12:20 |
This is exactly a Spanish R12 S Familiar, only produced in 1975-76 |
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